Why roll out a new system with no training

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scgallafent
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Re: Why roll out a new system with no training

Postby scgallafent » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:36 pm

Different browsers solves that. You can run separate browser or it typically works to run one system in a regular window and one in a private/incognito window.

russellhltn
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Re: Why roll out a new system with no training

Postby russellhltn » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:21 pm

eblood66 wrote:Last I heard you couldn't have two different people logged into LCR and the audit tool in the same browser (because of the single sign on). Is that no longer the case or did you use different computers or different browsers?

There may be a simpler answer, but it's possible in Chrome by using different Chrome user profiles.

In Chrome, click profile (second icon from right in toolbar) > Manage People > Add person

Both "people" have have browser windows open but the two windows don't "talk" to each other.

As part of the setup, I'd add the Chrome shortcut to the desktop with a unique icon so you can identify them. That way, a click on on that icon launches the browser as that "user".

I always log into my email as a different "person" to avoid any malicious scripts.
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drepouille
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Re: Why roll out a new system with no training

Postby drepouille » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:50 am

The easiest way by far to perform an audit is to use two computers. Failing that, you can use two Windows profiles on the clerk computer.

By the way, just for fun, I scanned in all the receipts for all the expenses since the beginning of the year last night. So the auditor can review all those receipts before he comes to the meetinghouse. He just won't see the bishop's and clerk's signatures on the expense reports and financial statements until he comes for the audit.
Dana Repouille, Plattsmouth, Nebraska

kenmcalister
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Re: Why roll out a new system with no training

Postby kenmcalister » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:00 am

scgallafent wrote:
We don't go to the effort to scan things unnecessarily. If the bishop hands us an invoice to be paid, we record the expense without attaching a receipt and file the paper. On the other hand, if I'm processing finances with the clerk and have a paper receipt for myself or my wife, I scan it so that he can process it with attached receipts. That avoids having to hunt down a second approver to be in the room when he enters it.

Here is where the discrepancy is because there is no formal spelled out process. I called SLC yesterday and asked the question "If I scan all documentation and attach electronically, do l have to still keep and file the paper copies for audit purposes and do I still need a request form to be filled out?' She did not know the answer and put me on hold for like 10 min. After coming back she told me yes you need to keep and file the paper in case something happens to the electronic version. So what you think is correct and what SLC says is correct is two different things. This is why I say there is no process, it is people making it up as they go along. I am going to go rogue because I am not going to do what she told me to do, to also file paper backups. This is just to prove the point that what you say is OK to do it and what SLC says to do are two different things. Again this all needs to be spelled out by SLC so we all do them the same and we know what to expect during the audit and were not directing other clerks to do something that is not correct.

So which is it? Do we have to keep the paper copies or not if they are scanned and attached? According to SLC yes you do.

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Re: Why roll out a new system with no training

Postby drepouille » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:15 am

The scanned receipts that our Primary president emailed to me last week were mostly readable, except some handwritten notes on those receipts are not visible on the scanned images. Therefore, I plan to keep the paper receipts for just such a scenario. This is similar to the digitized films of vital records and census records. There are times when the digital image is not readable, and it would be nice if we could also examine the original paper document.

Keeping the paper originals in our file protects us from either operator error or technical glitches while scanning them.
Dana Repouille, Plattsmouth, Nebraska

russellhltn
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Re: Why roll out a new system with no training

Postby russellhltn » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:22 am

Depending on how you file the paper, you might want to think about simplifying it.

When I was a ward clerk for a small singles ward, I just stapled everything for one check together and stuck it into a folder for the month in check number order. Simple, fast, and I could find things if I needed them. It didn't take up much space.
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davesudweeks
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Re: Why roll out a new system with no training

Postby davesudweeks » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:37 am

kenmcalister wrote:Here is where the discrepancy is because there is no formal spelled out process. I called SLC yesterday and asked the question "If I scan all documentation and attach electronically, do l have to still keep and file the paper copies for audit purposes and do I still need a request form to be filled out?' She did not know the answer and put me on hold for like 10 min. After coming back she told me yes you need to keep and file the paper in case something happens to the electronic version. So what you think is correct and what SLC says is correct is two different things. This is why I say there is no process, it is people making it up as they go along. I am going to go rogue because I am not going to do what she told me to do, to also file paper backups. This is just to prove the point that what you say is OK to do it and what SLC says to do are two different things. Again this all needs to be spelled out by SLC so we all do them the same and we know what to expect during the audit and were not directing other clerks to do something that is not correct.

So which is it? Do we have to keep the paper copies or not if they are scanned and attached? According to SLC yes you do.

I believe this is akin to the instruction from the brethren that "local adaptation" may be required. A process that works in Salt Lake City may not work in Oklahoma. A process that works in Oklahoma may not work in Italy, etc. The church is unable to do a one-size-fits-all approach, even within the confines of the continental USA.

I am a Quality Engineer by profession where the goal is always to identify the best process and everyone follow it. If we find a better process, we switch. This is not the same in the gospel where we are all working through the various situations we are all in. I envy those who have a stake clerk who takes an active role in training and assistance - I have never experienced that in many years as a ward clerk. We have a great stake clerk, but training the wards is not his long suit so I deal with it and do my best. The last time we met, I trained him more than he trained me, but that is OK as well.

For our ward, we are not (at this point) digitizing anything unless we need to. We are also not printing anything that is already digital. We are trying to work through the processes as best as we can and we hope we don't have any audit exceptions, but if we do we will deal with them as needed. I don't get hung up if there is an audit exception as long is the cause is human error because I haven't met anyone personally yet who has not made a human error. We don't know how our next audit will come out so that will be an interesting learning experience.

The Gospel is perfect, the people in the church are not. I try to be as patient with their shortcomings as I hope they will be with mine (I have plenty).

russellhltn
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Re: Why roll out a new system with no training

Postby russellhltn » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:50 am

davesudweeks wrote:I don't get hung up if there is an audit exception as long is the cause is human error

I agree. It's not like anyone is going to get fired or the ward penalized.

Given the change, a higher than normal number of exceptions is to be expected while everyone is learning. In fact, I'd suggest that the harder you work to make exceptions go away, the more likely the powers-that-be will consider the roll out (including the training) a success.
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scgallafent
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Re: Why roll out a new system with no training

Postby scgallafent » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:25 pm

kenmcalister wrote:So which is it? Do we have to keep the paper copies or not if they are scanned and attached? According to SLC yes you do.

Our ward doesn't keep paper copies of scanned receipts if they are successfully attached to the expense. Nor do any other wards in our stake.

You're welcome to visit with your stake president and stake audit chairman and decide what process they would like you to follow. The stake president is ultimately responsible for stake records. See Handbook 1, 13.3.1 and 14.2.1.

The IT manager responsible for development of the system will follow up to see what instructions are coming from the GSC.

kenmcalister
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Re: Why roll out a new system with no training

Postby kenmcalister » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:11 pm

I did my first EFT today and there were no notifications sent to any of the stake presidency nor clerk to approve the expense. We waited all day to see if it would come through and it did not. When there is a paper check written we will all get a notification that there is one pending a couple of days latter. How log does it take for the email notifications to be triggered with doing an EFT?


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