Family Tree vs New Family Search

Discussions about using and improving the new FamilySearch online application.
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garysturn
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Postby garysturn » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:49 pm

RussellHltn wrote:A nit-pick on the names. The developers use the Family Tree API. So it may take the pressure off of the "Family Tree" interface found in labs.familysearch, but "FamilyTree" is here for the long haul.


You are right, newFamilySearch is actually called FamilyTree too, but no one calls it that. If you don't call it newFamilySearch some people don't know what you are talking about.
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Postby jbh001 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:17 am

RussellHltn wrote:Only if they see a need to change it again. I suspect it's using the Family Tree API, so it can be coded to be anything that works. But I doubt if they'll undertake a re-write without a pressing need. I think it's flash since that's what it needs to run.
One of the problems with Flash is that despite being available for many operating systems, only the Windows version is up-to-date. The Mac, Linux, and other versions are all behind or lacking features of the Windows versions, which in turn diminishes the cross-platform usability of Flash.

For example: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/05/06/flash_wars_the_many_enemies_and_obstacles_of_flash_part_2_of_3.html&page=2
With Flash 8, released in 2005 just before the Adobe purchase, Macromedia decided to only build support for Flash content playback on the Mac within the web plugin or in the standalone player, and delegate Flash playback from within a PDF to QuickTime. By that time, Apple had given up trying to keep pace with the latest version of Flash, so users trying to view Flash inside a PDF could only play Flash 5 content.

...

The fact that Adobe has only delivered fair to poor Flash support for any platform outside of Windows is also a significant problem. While the company likes to rattle off the number of devices and operating systems that "support Flash," it hides the fact that few of those actually support the latest Flash 9, with many stuck at support for Flash 5, 6, or 7.

...

Outside of smartphones and PDAs, other non-PC devices that supposedly run Flash are often similarly outdated and buggy. The Sony PlayStation 3 (which uses the NetFront browser) and Nintendo Wii (Opera) web browsers offer "Flash support" that only works with content developed for older versions of Flash. The Xbox 360 does not ship with Flash support, and it sure looks as if Microsoft has no interest in providing it at any point in the future.

Adobe provides a Linux Flash Player 9, but it only works on 32-bit x86 machines, which rules out its use on 64-bit PCs, game consoles and desktops using PowerPC processors, or most devices running on ARM chips, although Nokia has adapted Adobe's Flash Player 9 for the Linux and ARM-based Internet Tablet 800.

Adobe's Flash support on the Mac also carries on the tradition of Macromedia's second rate support for platforms outside of Windows. While Macs have fewer problems playing modern Flash content than other platforms outside of Windows, the Flash plugin Adobe supplies for Mac users has significant problems with memory leaks and stability. Apple can't be pleased that Flash distracts from the overall experience of Safari and the Mac desktop.
This is why Apple has been aggressively moving away from Flash towards Javascript, HTML 5, CSS 3, Ajax, and such, because you don't have to depend on Adobe or anything else proprietary to get the functionality.

This is why I hope future applications from the Church will move toward non-proprietary options.

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Postby mkmurray » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:40 am

jbh001 wrote:This is why I hope future applications from the Church will move toward non-proprietary options.

You make good points and Apple's move to non-proprietary formats is admirable. They certainly are the trailblazer on this front, and we all know the Church doesn't prefer to be the one at the forefront of a trend.

In your non-proprietary suggestion, much of the functionality would likely have to be Javascript based, as that would be the only way to get the client-side loading advantages that Flash inherently offers (as this was suggested to be one of the primary reasons for rewriting NFS with this Family Tree application).

Anyway, we don't need to get way off topic with this discussion, or else it will need to be forked.
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Postby russellhltn » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:31 pm

This correction was posted by Ron Tanner, product manager for Family Tree:

Family Tree (like Life Browser) is only the name of a labs project and not
the name of an internet site or product. Anyone with an account to new
FamilySearch can use this labs project as an experimental way to work with
data in new FamilySearch.
The site new FamilySearch is the only site that will provide tree creation,
temple reservation and ordinance duplication checking. This site will never
be called Family Tree even when it's interface is modified to look and
behave like the Family Tree project.
I hope this clears up any confusion between the labs project Family Tree and
the website new FamilySearch.
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Postby techgy » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:48 pm

The comment regarding the fact that Family Tree does not do temple submissions is in conflict with a recent Email I received from FamilySearch Support.

"
[font="]FamilySearch product management is pleased to announce that the Family Tree at FamilySearch Labs was recently updated. The latest updates now include all of the functionality required to prepare names for temple ordinances and print Family Ordinance Request (FOR) forms—the full “temple experience!”

It would appear that Family Tree does indeed support temple submissions. The Email was received on: April 3, 2009.

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Postby garysturn » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:56 pm

Techgy wrote:The comment regarding the fact that Family Tree does not do temple submissions is in conflict with a recent Email I received from FamilySearch Support.

"
[font="]FamilySearch product management is pleased to announce that the Family Tree at FamilySearch Labs was recently updated. The latest updates now include all of the functionality required to prepare names for temple ordinances and print Family Ordinance Request (FOR) forms—the full “temple experience!”

It would appear that Family Tree does indeed support temple submissions. The Email was received on: April 3, 2009.

[/font]


You are right, I participated in the beta test which tested Temple Submissions and side by side ordinance duplicate comparisons for Temple Submissions and that version has now been made public.

I also remember new.FamilySearch being called FamilyTree before the current FamilyTree project was ever added to the Labs site.
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scion-p40
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Postby scion-p40 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:48 am

When I copy & paste from nFS, lots of garbage shows up--including incorrect parents on the sealing info. When I copy & paste from FamilyTree, I get . . . nothing! It doesn't do that. Neither is a viable option.

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Postby rmrichesjr » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:45 pm

scion wrote:When I copy & paste from nFS, lots of garbage shows up--including incorrect parents on the sealing info. When I copy & paste from FamilyTree, I get . . . nothing! It doesn't do that. Neither is a viable option.


What operating system and browser were you using?

On some systems, there are two ways to do copy-paste: 1) Control-C and Control-V; 2) select some text, right-click, choose the "copy" option, move to the destination, right-click, and choose the "paste" option. Which method(s) did you try? Might the other method, if you have both available, help?

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Postby scion-p40 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:23 pm

I'm using Firefox on Windows XP. I almost exclusively drag to select, then right click and paste. In FT, I cannot select data, so it cannot be copied & pasted.

I copied & pasted info into an email to a friend with whom I was discussing a particular person. It looked neat and like the website when I sent it to her & when she received it. However, in the course of our discussion, it came back in plain text as follows:


*Person identifier:* 9V35-WVX
Name Information Contributors
Name: Fred Tucker <javascript:;> Disputed. Click for details Edit
Multiple <javascript:getMultipleContactInfo('bookid=p.9V35-WVX&nameid=60000000-sim-_IRSvptjLoMulvtkvPOEIk&depth=2&ro=1');>
Gender Information Contributors
Gender: Male <javascript:;> Disputed. Click for details Edit
---------removed data------------
Event Information Contributors
Birth: about 1869 <javascript:;> Disputed. Click for details
,, Indiana <javascript:;> Disputed. Click for details Edit
Multiple <javascript:getMultipleContactInfo('bookid=p.9V35-WVX&eventid=60000000-sim-QNWhd3LT0a3eiXnndxFhTV&depth=2&ro=1');>
Death: [Date and place not provided] <javascript:;> Disputed. Click for details
Disputed. Click for details Edit
LDS Church Temple Records <javascriptopenDGDialog('openpopup?dest=contactinfo&depth=2&contributorid=wkc.MMMM-MM8&submitterid=wkc.MMMM-MM8&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&assertionvaluegroupid=60000000-sim-FacUKq7ME0NMA8Yor1yjnF&ro=1', 700, 500, 'yes', 'yes');>


Individual Ordinances Baptism Ordinances may be needed <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=splitpopup&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&focus=p.9V35-WVX&ro=true#> All ordinances for this person are completed or not needed <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=splitpopup&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&focus=p.9V35-WVX&ro=true#>

* 8 August 2007
<javascriptopenDGDialog('openpopup?dest=ordinancedetails&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&ordid=60000000-sim-OCzAsDW9gFiPZPtUum_K4V&ro=1',
750, 550, 'yes', 'yes');>
* Idaho Falls Idaho Temple
<javascriptopenDGDialog('openpopup?dest=ordinancedetails&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&ordid=60000000-sim-OCzAsDW9gFiPZPtUum_K4V&ro=1',
750, 550, 'yes', 'yes');>
* Ready
<https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=splitpopup&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&focus=p.9V35-WVX&ro=true#>

Confirmation

* 8 August 2007
----------------snipped data----------
Sealing to Parents * George Henry Blood

* Harriet Esther Hopkins

* 7 June 2008
<javascriptopenDGDialog('openpopup?dest=ordinancedetails&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&ordid=null&ro=1',
750, 550, 'yes', 'yes');>
* Rexburg Idaho Temple
<javascriptopenDGDialog('openpopup?dest=ordinancedetails&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&ordid=null&ro=1',
750, 550, 'yes', 'yes');>


Siblings Parents
Click for options <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=splitpopup&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&focus=p.9V35-WVX&ro=true#> Elmer Tucker Disputed. Click for details <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=splitpopup&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&focus=p.9V35-WVX&ro=true#> (1868-)
Disputed. Click for details Calvin Tucker Disputed. Click for details <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=splitpopup&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&focus=p.9V35-WVX&ro=true#> (1833-)
Disputed. Click for details Male
Click for options <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=splitpopup&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&focus=p.9V35-WVX&ro=true#> Fred Tucker Disputed. Click for details <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=splitpopup&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&focus=p.9V35-WVX&ro=true#> (1869-)
Male
Disputed. Click for details Disputed. Click for details Click for options <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=splitpopup&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&focus=p.9V35-WVX&ro=true#> Frank Tucker Disputed. Click for details <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=splitpopup&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&focus=p.9V35-WVX&ro=true#> (1869-)
Disputed. Click for details Disputed. Click for details

Disputed. Click for details Disputed. Click for details <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=splitpopup&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&focus=p.9V35-WVX&ro=true#> Isabela Burkett Disputed. Click for details <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=splitpopup&depth=2&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&focus=p.9V35-WVX&ro=true#> (1836-1895)




*Contributor Contact Information*

*Contributor 1*
Contact name: LDS Church Temple Records <javascriptopenDGDialog('openpopup?dest=contactinfo&depth=2&contributorid=wkc.MMMM-MM8&submitterid=wkc.MMMM-MM8&bookid=p.9V35-WVX', 700, 500, 'yes', 'yes');> mockcontactname To request a membership correction click here <javascriptopenDGDialog('../static/cmisrequestform.htm', 700, 500, 'yes', 'yes')>
Full name:

Mock Contributor

Telephone number:

123.456.7890

E-mail address:

mockcontactname@whatever.com <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=multiplecontactinfo&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&eventid=60000000-sim-QNWhd3LT0a3eiXnndxFhTV&depth=2&ro=1#>

E-mail this contributor <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=multiplecontactinfo&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&eventid=60000000-sim-QNWhd3LT0a3eiXnndxFhTV&depth=2&ro=1#>

Mailing address:

123 North MainNowhere, UT 87654 USA

Submitted by:

Mock Contributor

*Contributor 2*
Contact name: ecsherman2006665 <javascriptopenDGDialog('openpopup?dest=contactinfo&depth=2&contributorid=u.MM3L-ZG7&submitterid=wkc.MMMM-MM8&bookid=p.9V35-WVX', 700, 500, 'yes', 'yes');> mockcontactname To request a membership correction click here <javascriptopenDGDialog('../static/cmisrequestform.htm', 700, 500, 'yes', 'yes')>
Full name:

Mock Contributor

Telephone number:

123.456.7890

E-mail address:

mockcontactname@whatever.com <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=multiplecontactinfo&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&eventid=60000000-sim-QNWhd3LT0a3eiXnndxFhTV&depth=2&ro=1#>

E-mail this contributor <https://new.familysearch.org/en/action/openpopup?dest=multiplecontactinfo&bookid=p.9V35-WVX&eventid=60000000-sim-QNWhd3LT0a3eiXnndxFhTV&depth=2&ro=1#>

Mailing address:

123 North MainNowhere, UT 87654 USA

Submitted by: LDS Church Temple Records

There are several problems with this:
1) On the website, nothing is disputed, but this makes it look like disputes exist.
2) The "parents" under the sealing info have no relationship whatsoever to this family.
3) Mock contact means what, exactly? (My friend wondered if that was an order, or an adjective?) It shows up even when claimed & granted legacies exist, but the program does not properly provide contact info.

Good news, though: None of these problems exist in FT because it doesn't copy, so it cannot paste. :)

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Postby rmrichesjr » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:32 pm

Some of what you posted looks like HTML. Funny that copy-paste would be grabbing the actual HTML.

Part of why you're getting "Disputed" when no dispute exists is because newFamilySearch puts some text like that on the page whether or not it's actually going to show it. If it's not going to show the text, it colors it the same as the background or otherwise causes it to be invisible. I don't know why it does that.

Here's one workaround that hopefully wouldn't be too painful. Perhaps you could paste into Notepad or something similar first, manually sanitize it, and then copy from Notepad and paste to the real destination.


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