export households from ward directory?

[RossEvans]

Further, if there is policy meant to apply so generally to members' and leaders' private computers, a document about "meetinghouse technology" is not where I would expect to find it.

I agree, but it's not like its never happened before. Check out points 11, 12 and 13 on the 2009 Policies and Guidelines for Computers Used by Clerks for Church Record Keeping.

Yes, I recall that older document, and I thought it an odd construct -- mostly because it made it the responsibility of the STS to "ensure" behavior on the part of others over whom he had little control.

But more on point, I note that in each of those cases, there was express mention of those personal devices. That is all the more reason to believe that when the authors mean to expand the scope of such a document to include such personal devices, they do so explicitly. In the current policy document, they do not do so. BTW, thanks for the link. I looked for the reference about an hour ago to help buttress my point, but failed to find it.

[russellhltn]

Again, I find it odd they'd be so cautious on church machines but ignore what people do with data on their home machines. I can't help but feel that it's some kind of oversight. But there's other questions that document raises. I will be interesting to see what the response is.

[RossEvans]

Again, I find it odd they'd be so cautious on church machines but ignore what people do with data on their home machines. I can't help but feel that it's some kind of oversight. But there's other questions that document raises. I will be interesting to see what the response is.

I don't think the authorities "ignore" that at all. I think they are taking steps to ensure that any downloaded or exported data is available to and placed under the stewardship of local priesthood leaders, who already are under general instructions in Handbook 1, Section 13.8 to protect it by password and keep it confidential on all media. It is just that the church does not micromanage which software we can use on our own computers to work with such data. It is a case of teaching correct principles and expecting leaders to govern themselves.

Yes, the church obviously controls the software installed on its own systems more rigorously, and for reasons that extend beyond privacy protection (licensing, firewall, anti-malware, network security, compatibilty, etc. for meetinghouse systems.) But is is far from feasible for Salt Lake to govern all the possible applications that we might use, quite legitimately, on thousands of varied computers owned by leaders.

As for smartphones, which are particularly vulnerable to loss, by other policy we all are now prohibited from storing membership data on such devices except in church-sanctioned apps such as LDS Tools. (This more restrictive policy obviously supersedes the older policy you cited from the 2009 document, which preceded development of LDS Tools and quaintly referred to "PDAs.")

[RossEvans]

BTW, with respect to meetinghouse computers themselves, where does one find the current list of approved software? It used to be that there was a short list maintained by CHQ (Open Office/Libre Office, CutePDF, etc.), and stake presidents had the authority to supplement it locally. Is that still the case under the new document?

EDIT: Never mid. Found it.

[russellhltn]

BTW, with respect to meetinghouse computers themselves, where does one find the current list of approved software?

That's one of the questions we had - as well as how to get software added to that list.

For now, I'd assume that RKTS > Applications > Third-Party Software is our list. The ability of the stake president to autorize anything else came from the 2009 policy I linked to earlier. It's not clear if the new policy (which has no such provision) replaces the 2009 policy. (Yet another question.)

[RossEvans]

The ability of the stake president to autorize anything else came from the 2009 policy I linked to earlier. It's not clear if the new policy (which has no such provision) replaces the 2009 policy. (Yet another question.)

The way I read it, the new policy has no requirement that the stake president expressly approve any particular software not on the suggested list. He just has the general responsibility to understand and enforce the whole policy, which means that any unlisted software acquisition adheres to the policy guidelines. And the new policy guidelines themselves are quite open-ended and permissive with respect to application software. Far from being focused on privacy protection or even functionality, the guidelines are almost entirely concerned with budget and adminstrative issues: requiring proper licensing, preferring free software, allowing donated software, allowing purchases but discouraging expensive purchases with budget funds.

All of which is concerned entirely with managing meetinghouse software legally and parsimoniously, and having nothing to do with what we install and use on our own personal computers.

(In fact, the whole subject of the new Meetinghouse Technology Policy document is so unrelated to the original topic of this thread -- which was about members downloading directory data from lds.org -- that I suggest it be spun off on its own.)

[eblood66]

All of which is concerned entirely with managing meetinghouse software legally and parsimoniously, and having nothing to do with what we install and use on our own personal computers.

I don't think anyone is claiming the policy dictates what we can install or use on our personal computers. The question is only whether MLS and/or membership data may be used in connection with third-party software on personal computers.

(In fact, the whole subject of the new Meetinghouse Technology Policy document is so unrelated to the original topic of this thread -- which was about members downloading directory data from lds.org -- that I suggest it be spun off on its own.)

Whether the policy restricts how we may use downloaded directory data does seem relevant to the discussion.

[russellhltn]

The way I read it, the new policy has no requirement that the stake president expressly approve any particular software not on the suggested list.

True.

And the new policy guidelines themselves are quite open-ended and permissive with respect to application software. Far from being focused on privacy protection or even functionality, the guidelines are almost entirely concerned with budget and adminstrative issues: requiring proper licensing, preferring free software, allowing donated software, allowing purchases but discouraging expensive purchases with budget funds.

We must not be reading the same document. That would be true of the web page with the Sept 2013 date. But the 2014 policy says "4.13.2 Only Church-approved, licensed software is permitted for installation on Church computers." I'm not sure how you want to define "Church-approved", but I've never seen it to mean anything other than area office or CHQ approved. I think it would be phrased differently if it could be "stake president approved".

Edit: It should be noted that the new policy does not indicate what or where the Church-approved list is. It's pure conjecture on my part to suggest we can find a list at the web page I pointed to. So OpenOffice, LibreOffice, Microsoft Office, Microsoft Works, Chrome, Firefox, Adobe Reader, Adobe Flash Player, CutePDF, Foxit Reader, and Picasa are likely "church-approved" for use on clerk computers. But I would not expect the policy expressed on that page which predates the Meetinghouse Technology Policy to supersede the new policy.

[RossEvans]

All of which is concerned entirely with managing meetinghouse software legally and parsimoniously, and having nothing to do with what we install and use on our own personal computers.

I don't think anyone is claiming the policy dictates what we can install or use on our personal computers. The question is only whether MLS and/or membership data may be used in connection with third-party software on personal computers.

Well, I have read nothing in the document that provides any hint that it applies to our personal computers at all. I have only seen speculation on the part of forum commenters that, in their opinion, "meetinghouse" policy should be construed to regulate leaders' use of "third party software" for that purpose on their own computers.

The explicit definition of "third party software" in the document refers to software "not approved for use on Church computers." And when one looks in the document to see what that means, really nothing is "not approved for use on Church computers" unless it violates guidelines requiring proper licensing and discouraging large budget purchases. So even if I accepted the preposterous notion that the defined scope of the document to "meetinghouses" applies to my personal computer -- which I certainly do not -- I find that I would still be in complete compliance with the "meetinghouse technology policy" guidelines because I have no illegal software, and the unit never spent a dime on anything I have installed on my personal computer.

[RossEvans]

The way I read it, the new policy has no requirement that the stake president expressly approve any particular software not on the suggested list.

True.

And the new policy guidelines themselves are quite open-ended and permissive with respect to application software. Far from being focused on privacy protection or even functionality, the guidelines are almost entirely concerned with budget and adminstrative issues: requiring proper licensing, preferring free software, allowing donated software, allowing purchases but discouraging expensive purchases with budget funds.

We must not be reading the same document. That would be true of the web page with the Sept 2013 date. But the 2014 policy says "4.13.2 Only Church-approved, licensed software is permitted for installation on Church computers." I'm not sure how you want to define "Church-approved", but I've never seen it to mean anything other than area office or CHQ approved. I think it would be phrased differently if it could be "stake president approved".

Edit: It should be noted that the new policy does not indicate what or where the Church-approved list is. It's pure conjecture on my part to suggest we can find a list at the web page I pointed to. So OpenOffice, LibreOffice, Microsoft Office, Microsoft Works, Chrome, Firefox, Adobe Reader, Adobe Flash Player, CutePDF, Foxit Reader, and Picasa are likely "church-approved" for use on clerk computers. But I would not expect the policy expressed on that page which predates the Meetinghouse Technology Policy to supersede the new policy.

We are reading the same RKATS document, which is the only source I know of that explains what "church approved" means. And that document is not an exclusive list at all, but a suggested list that can be expanded by adherence to open-ended, general guidelines:

When it comes to third-party software, the Church recommends using free software applications like OpenOffice when possible to keep costs down and to reduce the burden of keeping license agreement records. There is no prohibition against purchasing third-party applications or receiving donations of software, as long as the unit adheres to the license agreements and keeps physical copies of the license certificates in the clerk’s office. In the case of donated software, the donor must provide the software license certificate and confirmation that they have either uninstalled the software from or have never installed it on other computers.

When purchasing software, copies of the proof of purchase must be emailed to ITAssetManagement@ldschurch.org. Please include the unit number where the software will be used and the contact information of the individual who purchased it.

The software products listed below are optional, but have been used by many clerks. These products are free and do not require licenses. Other software products may be used as long as the guidelines above are followed.