remove nonmember spouse's name from online ward directory

Discussions about the Directory Tool on lds.org. Questions about the Directory on the classic site should be posted in the LUWS forum.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 30392
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

Postby russellhltn » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:44 pm

jdcr256 wrote:The requirement for the online directory is to accurately represent the household record.


The problem is the oneline directory does not check to see if a non-member record exists in that household before displaying it. The husband could well be sitting in prison, or separated, and yet the directory shows them as living at that address. Thus, as it stands now, it does NOT accurately reflect the household. It only reflects the marriage. (Which we are not to cancel until the divorce is final.) Not the living arrangements.

I find it odd that the system will display a non-member's name on-line when the MLS procedures prohibit us from creating a record in MLS (which would cause it to appear on the MLS directory) without getting the approval of the non-member. So the current system is circumventing policy.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.

User avatar
aebrown
Community Administrator
Posts: 15123
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Sandy, Utah

Postby aebrown » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:56 pm

jdcr256 wrote:The intent is to not call attention to non-members and those going through church disciplinary action.


I understand this intent. Particularly for those whose records may have been removed through disciplinary action, this can be a sensitive issue, and we want to be as supportive as possible.

But if the responsibility is given to bishops, who can direct their clerks to create or delete nonmember records in MLS as needed, this can all be handled properly, with sensitivity to the wide variety of scenarios. The current implementation's choice to show nonmember spouses from the member's membership record removes all control from the local level.

I'm trying hard to imagine a single scenario that cannot be handled by the Directory showing only nonmember records that are explicitly created in MLS at the direction of the bishop. I can't come up with one. But there are all sorts of scenarios (as you can see in this thread) where the choice to use the spouse information from the spouse's membership record can cause problems.

It's nice to know that ward clerks can contact MLS support to have a marriage record suppressed. But if the Directory simply showed nonmember records from MLS, there would be no need for that mechanism at all -- you'd save a lot of phone calls (and the vast majority of ward clerks have no idea that this is even an option).
Questions that can benefit the larger community should be asked in a public forum, not a private message.

Aczlan
Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Upstate, NY, USA

Postby Aczlan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:41 pm

jdcr256 wrote:The requirement for the online directory is to accurately represent the household record. If the husband's name is on the marriage record in MLS, the requirement is to display it in the online directory.

I would think that having the ward lists match (whether printed from MLS or from the website) would be of higher importance. The data from a MLS sourced ward list should be as accurate as a online directory sourced ward list.

Aaron Z

pzells
New Member
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:05 am
Location: Miami, Florida, USA

Postby pzells » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:51 pm

I guess the outcome of this thread is that if I don't want non-member spouse information to show up on the online ward directory I have to call SLC to have marriage information suppressed???

Is this problem being addressed by those who have the power to fix it?

I now have a list of people that have asked me why their non-member spouse is listed on the online ward directory. They adamantly want the non-member spouse's name removed.

Not to mention the conversations with confused members "I did not know so and so was a member?" "No, he isn't a member." "Yes he is. His name is on the ward directory." "Yes I know but that does not mean that he is a member." "Then why is he on the ward directory if he is not a member?" "Uhhhh .. good question." BTW the last time I had this conversation was with my bishop. Basically it is confusing everyone who comes across it.

russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 30392
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

Postby russellhltn » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:58 pm

pzells wrote:I now have a list of people that have asked me why their non-member spouse is listed on the online ward directory. They adamantly want the non-member spouse's name removed.


I'd suggest that you call Local Unit Support and work with them on that. It appears to be our only option at the moment.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.

User avatar
aebrown
Community Administrator
Posts: 15123
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Sandy, Utah

Postby aebrown » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:10 pm

pzells wrote:Not to mention the conversations with confused members "I did not know so and so was a member?" "No, he isn't a member." "Yes he is. His name is on the ward directory." "Yes I know but that does not mean that he is a member." "Then why is he on the ward directory if he is not a member?" "Uhhhh .. good question." BTW the last time I had this conversation was with my bishop. Basically it is confusing everyone who comes across it.


I certainly can understand why some members would not want a nonmember spouse listed. But it really shouldn't be confusing. In our ward and stake we have all sorts of nonmember spouses who are happy to be listed. After all, they are a spouse. I could easily see how it could be confusing if the spouse were not listed, prompting conversations like "I thought she was married...." "But if she's married, why is no spouse listed?" "Uhhhh ... good question." We even have one nonmember who is more active than his member wife!

But in any case, we need to have both options to respect the wishes of the people involved -- but other members really shouldn't be confused either way.
Questions that can benefit the larger community should be asked in a public forum, not a private message.

pzells
New Member
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:05 am
Location: Miami, Florida, USA

Postby pzells » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:53 am

I will call Local Unit Support to resolve this problem.

aebrown wrote:But it really shouldn't be confusing. In our ward and stake we have all sorts of nonmember spouses who are happy to be listed. After all, they are a spouse. I could easily see how it could be confusing if the spouse were not listed, prompting conversations like "I thought she was married...." "But if she's married, why is no spouse listed?" "Uhhhh ... good question." We even have one nonmember who is more active than his member wife!

But in any case, we need to have both options to respect the wishes of the people involved -- but other members really shouldn't be confused either way.


I completely agree that an option to include or not include non-member spouses in the online directory should be included. This option would solve the problems related to this issue.

The problem with the online ward directory is that it is a member directory. I wonder how many members know that non-members are listed in the online member directory. I don't think that many realize that outside of some clerks and leaders. Also the online directory does not provide a good way of determining the member status of those listed. You said that confusion may arise if a non-member spouse is not listed because other members may see that think that the member (married to a non-member) is single. True this scenario can occur, but it would only arise if the fact that the online member directory includes non-members is known. I am not convinced that this fact is known by the majority of members.

Also I think that it is necessary to know who in the directory is a member. It can save awkward experiences from assuming everyone in the directory can create.

In the case of my ward, the members that do not want their non-member spouses listed on the online directory are active and their spouses are either semi-participatory in the church or at least on good terms with the church. These non-member spouses want their decision to remain outside of the church to be respected by their member spouses and the church. Their member spouses are concerned that listing their names will appear to be breech on this trust/respect. In other words, the concern is that listing non-member spouses will hamper missionary work with these non-members. Unfortunately I have several couples that have come to me with this predicament.

rnphong
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:20 pm

lds.org entry is incorrect

Postby rnphong » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:36 pm

Hello there, I am a new member of the church. In January of this year myself and two of my children were baptized. The information gathered prior to our baptisms included data about my estranged husband on all three records, as we are still married and he is the father of my children. I understand why his name would appear on the church records. I do not agree with it appearing in the online directory.

He has not ever resided in my current home. He is not a member, and never has been a member. At this time his name is listed as the head of our household. This is very painful to me, as he abandoned our family, after the birth of my youngest child, and we have not seen him since 2004. In addition, my daughter's name is spelled incorrectly.

Our record is not an accurate portrayal of my family composition, and I want this data corrected. It is very important to me. To date, I have spoken with our bishop, ward clerk, and someone who handles the database in our church. None of these individuals were able to make the correction. I also emailed support who stated that I had to talk with the clerk. In addition, I spoke with our stake clerk, at the advice of our stake president's wife, and he stated that everything appears correct in the MLS system. However, it is not correct in the online stake directory.

I have noted that other women in our ward who are single or have husbands who are not members, do not have their husband's names listed. I can tell by the length of this thread that dates all the way back to 2009, this is an ongoing issue. I'm hopeful someone can provide some support so that this information can be corrected.

I am very frustrated by this inaccuracy and have had no success getting a resolution. If someone could please assist with this concern it would be greatly appreciated.

russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 30392
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

Postby russellhltn » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:56 pm

rnphong wrote:I am very frustrated by this inaccuracy and have had no success getting a resolution. If someone could please assist with this concern it would be greatly appreciated.


This forum is primarily user-to-user type of help. As such, we don't have the ability to fix your membership information. Only the clerk(s) in your Ward/Stake have dominion over your membership records. Some of us have tried to "fix the system" but so far have not been successful in convincing anyone that a change is needed.

So far the advice we've gotten is to have your ward clerk call Local Unit Support and keep on them until they fix it.

Failing that, I'm not sure what else to suggest other then a strongly worded letter sent to the legal department.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.

jdlessley
Community Moderators
Posts: 8418
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:30 pm
Location: USA, TX

Postby jdlessley » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:32 pm

rnphong wrote:The information gathered prior to our baptisms included data about my estranged husband on all three records, as we are still married and he is the father of my children.
In post #30 a Church employee suggests having the marriage record suppressed. This may take more than just one phone call from the ward clerk. If the phone calls do not work then a letter from the bishop to the records department may be necessary.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the ChurchofJesusChrist.org Help Center?


Return to “Directory”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest