Access denied

Discussions about the Leader and Clerk Resources on lds.org.
jonesrk
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Re: Access denied

Postby jonesrk » Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:38 pm

rickk wrote:Perhaps a sprint or two of the development team needs to be redirected towards quality improvement and pause on feature additions. I would much rather have a reliable website with basic features vs one with lots of nice features that can be accessed maybe 50% of the time - which seems to be the status right now...

Which development team? I'm guessing the issues are NOT necessarily caused by the LCR Finance team.

I'm not trying to just blow off the question, just trying to point out that there is a lot that goes into making a system stable, especially on Sunday when the load of many interrelated systems is significantly higher than the rest of the week.

Part of the problem is that there are many different changes going on right now. For example internally we are still working on changes from moving the domain from lds.org to churchofjesuschrist.org. There are also a couple of key parts of the sign-in/authorization path that are being upgraded/converted. All of those pieces contribute to the issues affecting the sites. As scgallafent pointed out in the linked post those teams are aware of the issues and working hard to stabilize things.

As has also been pointed out in other threads there are many of the IT staff that are in leadership/clerk positions, so we are aware of the disruption it causes and understand the frustration when trying to do your calling and are striving to make the systems as stable as we can.
Ryan Jones
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Stake Assistant Clerk

rickk
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Re: Access denied

Postby rickk » Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:16 pm

jonesrk wrote:I'm not trying to just blow off the question, just trying to point out that there is a lot that goes into making a system stable, especially on Sunday when the load of many interrelated systems is significantly higher than the rest of the week.


I understand there is a lot going on here, but as someone who has done engineering for 30+ years, when you have lots of inter-related pieces involved in a problem, leaving it to the individual teams to try to resolve is very inefficient. You need a concerted effort from many areas to get to the root of the problem - which was the reason for the comment about delaying feature development in favor of problem resolution.

The church has moved so much to the website, that we can’t really function anymore without it being reliable. My son teaches seminary and can’t get on to take care of his assignments. My stake presidency counselors can’t record endorsements for BYU. My finance folks in the stake can’t enter expenses or write checks. And it is not just Sunday - I see problems during the week fairly often as well.

Sorry for the tone, but things have gone downhill pretty significantly here, so it is frustrating for those of use tasked with using it. I’m sure that does include a number of the developers given their church callings, but it doesn’t make it any easier to get things done knowing they are suffering as well.

Rick

scgallafent
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Re: Access denied

Postby scgallafent » Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:03 pm

rickk wrote:I understand there is a lot going on here, but as someone who has done engineering for 30+ years, when you have lots of inter-related pieces involved in a problem, leaving it to the individual teams to try to resolve is very inefficient. You need a concerted effort from many areas to get to the root of the problem - which was the reason for the comment about delaying feature development in favor of problem resolution.

While you may have plenty of development experience, you aren't aware of the details of what is happening or the architectural concerns involved. Your suggestion is well-intended, but there are plenty of talented people working on the issues and telling them how to do their jobs seems a bit presumptuous.

chriswoodut
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Re: Access denied

Postby chriswoodut » Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:31 pm

scgallafent wrote:
rickk wrote:I understand there is a lot going on here, but as someone who has done engineering for 30+ years, when you have lots of inter-related pieces involved in a problem, leaving it to the individual teams to try to resolve is very inefficient. You need a concerted effort from many areas to get to the root of the problem - which was the reason for the comment about delaying feature development in favor of problem resolution.

While you may have plenty of development experience, you aren't aware of the details of what is happening or the architectural concerns involved. Your suggestion is well-intended, but there are plenty of talented people working on the issues and telling them how to do their jobs seems a bit presumptuous.


Is there anything we can do as users to avoid or lesson the issue when using the system? I'm sure the answer is no, but thought I'd ask. e.g. is the problem specific to chrome, or is it specific to people bookmarking lds.org and being rerouted to churchofjesuschrist.org use, etc

I'm probably just hoping for a work-around but thought I'd ask.

scgallafent
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Re: Access denied

Postby scgallafent » Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:41 pm

chriswoodut wrote:Is there anything we can do as users to avoid or lesson the issue when using the system? I'm sure the answer is no, but thought I'd ask. e.g. is the problem specific to chrome, or is it specific to people bookmarking lds.org and being rerouted to churchofjesuschrist.org use, etc

I'm probably just hoping for a work-around but thought I'd ask.

Right now there isn't anything you can do. When you look at Sunday's issues with LCR Finance (to pick one isolated issue), I can think of at least four systems where the relationships contributed to the overall problems yesterday. Individual members trying to change their behavior to either influence performance or avoid the collective issue isn't a realistic proposition.

mbell2034
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Re: Access denied

Postby mbell2034 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:32 am

I would Also like to register frustration with this problem. I understand there are limited resources, but it seems that server capacity (in this age of cloud computing) could be set up as a highly dynamic system to meet the demands of Sundays.

I’ve been locked out multiple times almost every Sunday for the past several months as I’m doing clerk work. The recent developments of online record keeping are excellent, but if we can’t access it all the time, it makes the work much harder.

Thanks for your consideration (whoever is reading this) and your great work.

russellhltn
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Re: Access denied

Postby russellhltn » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:37 am

mbell2034 wrote:but it seems that server capacity (in this age of cloud computing) could be set up as a highly dynamic system to meet the demands of Sundays.

From what's been said, it's not as simple as server capacity.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.

chriswoodut
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Re: Access denied

Postby chriswoodut » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:01 pm

Yeah, problem is bad today. More than recent weeks.

mbell2034
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Re: Access denied

Postby mbell2034 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:41 pm

russellhltn wrote:
mbell2034 wrote:but it seems that server capacity (in this age of cloud computing) could be set up as a highly dynamic system to meet the demands of Sundays.

From what's been said, it's not as simple as server capacity.


That’s fine. Obviously it is a problem having to do with use load so “server” was just layman’s speak for the real problem. Whatever the problem, it needs to be addressed. Hence all the comments.


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