Quarterly Report months

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Gary_Miller
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Re: Quarterly Report months

Postby Gary_Miller » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:30 am

genman wrote:Oh wait. Don't take my word for it. I learned something else new today. Primary kids are only supposed to be counted if they are under age 12 as of the last day of the quarter. That means that nearly the entire Valiant 11 class should not be counted for the quarterly report as of December, although they all continue to go to the Valiant 11 class for the 2nd hour until the end of the year.


Which makes my statement above correct. The reason you don't count the 12 yr olds is because they only attend class, look at it as their Sunday School class. Their numbers are counted under the YM and YW organizations.

genman wrote:Having said all that, not sure how the January numbers bug has anything to do with this.


It shows that there is no bug. Classes populate based on age as of 1 Jan. The only time there would be a difference in numbers from 31 Dec to 1 Jan is when a child's birth date is on 1 January.

genman
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Re: Quarterly Report months

Postby genman » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:41 am

Gary_Miller wrote:It shows that there is no bug. Classes populate based on age as of 1 Jan. The only time there would be a difference in numbers from 31 Dec to 1 Jan is when a child's birth date is on 1 January.

The bug is on the other end of Primary. When they turn age 3.

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Re: Quarterly Report months

Postby Gary_Miller » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:14 am

genman wrote:The bug is on the other end of Primary. When they turn age 3.


I Still don't see the bug. The number is, total children ages 3 (as of 1 January) through 11 years. For quarterly Budget Allowance, the primary attendance figure is calculated by multiplying the number of of children (ages 8 to 11) from membership records by the percent of Primary attendance from line 21 of the quarterly report. In actuality, baring move ins, your primary numbers would actually decrease throughout the year as the children turn 12 yrs old and join YM/YW.

genman
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Re: Quarterly Report months

Postby genman » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:41 pm

Gary_Miller wrote:I Still don't see the bug. The number is, total children ages 3 (as of 1 January) through 11 years.

Extreme example for illustration purposes: Let's say the Primary has only 1 child enrolled in all of Primary, say, in CTR 7 class in 2012 and they attend every month. But let's say there are 19 little children in the ward who turned age 3 in Feb 2012. With the current bug, the Quarterly Reports will show the following for the report months, which are typically filed on the 10th of the following month:

Mar 2012 = 1 enrolled, 1 attending, 100% attendance
Jun 2012 = 1 enrolled, 1 attending, 100% attendance
Sep 2012 = 1 enrolled, 1 attending, 100% attendance
Dec 2012 = 20 enrolled, 1 attending, 5% attendance <--- bug. should be 100%, not 5%

Gary_Miller wrote:For quarterly Budget Allowance, the primary attendance figure is calculated by...

That's interesting (although the Ward is the one with the budget allowance, not Primary; I've never heard of a ward where they adjust the Primary's allocated budget each quarter).

But that aside, fundamentally I wasn't really focused on the impact to Budget Allowance, just the integrity of the number. Whether a false number helps us or hurts us is a separate issue from whether or not it is true and accurate.

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Re: Quarterly Report months

Postby lajackson » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:41 pm

genman wrote:
Gary_Miller wrote:For quarterly Budget Allowance, the primary attendance figure is calculated by...

That's interesting (although the Ward is the one with the budget allowance, not Primary; I've never heard of a ward where they adjust the Primary's allocated budget each quarter).

Every ward in the Church. Part of the allowance to the stake (not the ward) is a small amount, exactly as Gary_Miller stated, in addition to the regular allowance based on sacrament meeting attendance. (There is also a little allowance for the youth and the YSA.) The stake then determines how much is passed along to the wards, hopefully most or all of it, but that is a discussion for another topic.

genman
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Re: Quarterly Report months

Postby genman » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:42 pm

lajackson wrote:There is also a little allowance for the youth and the YSA.

This is turning into a discussion on budgets. Quarterly reports are not only for budgets. But okay. Is the allowance per youth more or less than the allowance per primary child?

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aebrown
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Re: Quarterly Report months

Postby aebrown » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:58 pm

genman wrote:
lajackson wrote:There is also a little allowance for the youth and the YSA.

This is turning into a discussion on budgets. Quarterly reports are not only for budgets. But okay. Is the allowance per youth more or less than the allowance per primary child?

That depends on the location. But in the US, the portion of the allowance per youth is double that for each of the (estimated) Primary children ages 8-11.

Gary_Miller
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Re: Quarterly Report months

Postby Gary_Miller » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:05 pm

genman wrote: Quarterly reports are not only for budgets.


Correct however most of the thred was adjusting months to reflect higher numbers for budgets.

genman wrote:But okay. Is the allowance per youth more or less than the allowance per primary child?


The allowance break down is:

General Budget $12:00 (Sacrament meeting attendance)
Young Men $12.50 (YM attending priesthood meetings)
Young Women $12.50 (YW attending Sunday YW meetings)
Primary $6.50 (I gave how this is calculated earlier in post 33)
YSA $6.25 (Figure is calculated by multiplying the number of single adults (ages 18 to 30) from membership records by the percent of sacrament meeting attendance.)
Last edited by Gary_Miller on Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gary_Miller
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Re: Quarterly Report months

Postby Gary_Miller » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:18 pm

genman wrote:
Gary_Miller wrote:I Still don't see the bug. The number is, total children ages 3 (as of 1 January) through 11 years.

Extreme example for illustration purposes: Let's say the Primary has only 1 child enrolled in all of Primary, say, in CTR 7 class in 2012 and they attend every month. But let's say there are 19 little children in the ward who turned age 3 in Feb 2012. With the current bug, the Quarterly Reports will show the following for the report months, which are typically filed on the 10th of the following month:

Mar 2012 = 1 enrolled, 1 attending, 100% attendance
Jun 2012 = 1 enrolled, 1 attending, 100% attendance
Sep 2012 = 1 enrolled, 1 attending, 100% attendance
Dec 2012 = 20 enrolled, 1 attending, 5% attendance <--- bug. should be 100%, not 5%


Your December figures would not be correct the percent is "Children on line 20 attending Sunday Primary Meetings". Line 20 is " Total children ages 3 (as of 1 January) through 11 Years" So you need to account for the attendance of the 3 yrs who attended nursery for the month of December in the figures.

genman
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Re: Quarterly Report months

Postby genman » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:33 pm

lajackson wrote:
genman wrote:I've never heard of a ward where they adjust the Primary's allocated budget each quarter.

Every ward in the Church... The stake then determines how much is passed along to the wards

I may not have been clear. I didn't mean that the numbers for Primary have no impact on the budget allocation that is given to the stake, and that the stake gives to the ward. I meant from the Primary President's point of view, any particular quarter's numbers does not change her budget for that quarter. Most stakes and wards that I know of keep some amount of "leadership reserve" so that any realistic quarterly allocation fluctuations don't affect the ward's annual budget number and don't affect the ward organization's annual budget number. There may be an adjustment at the next year start, but not every quarter. The stake's allocation may bobble around a bit, but that does not necessarily (and does not usually) flow down to bother the Primary President about after each quarter.

So, I stand by my original statement: I've never heard of a ward where they bother the Primary President to adjust her allocated working budget after each quarter. At the ward organization level, the budgets are annual. Even if the stake allocation updates at the stake level are quarterly.

I have heard of wards where in September of the year, the Stake President tells all the Bishops to dramatically cut their budgets because of some other emergency that has come up in the Stake, but not because of quarterly report driven allocation flucuations.


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