Donations through Billpay

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tortdog
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#11

Post by tortdog »

So in the experience of others here, a financial clerk/bishop would likely be okay receiving an envelope directly from the bank with separate checks for tithing/FO/mission fund and the member not submitting a donation form?

My recollection from when I was a finan clerk was that we needed a donation form, and if one was not provided by the member then we had to create one. That would be a pain. I'd LOVE to send donations directly to the ward, but am assuming that it creates more work for the clerk.
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aebrown
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#12

Post by aebrown »

tortdog wrote:So in the experience of others here, a financial clerk/bishop would likely be okay receiving an envelope directly from the bank with separate checks for tithing/FO/mission fund and the member not submitting a donation form?

My recollection from when I was a finan clerk was that we needed a donation form, and if one was not provided by the member then we had to create one. That would be a pain. I'd LOVE to send donations directly to the ward, but am assuming that it creates more work for the clerk.
This topic was discussed at some length in the thread Donations Received via Bill Payer Service. You'll see there that different wards have different answers for your question. Some clerks are happy to fill out a donation slip; others require donors to submit it ahead of time.
Questions that can benefit the larger community should be asked in a public forum, not a private message.
SheffieldTR
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#13

Post by SheffieldTR »

I may be looking at this differently but as a bishop when I have received an EFT check mailed to my home, I have handed it back to the member and asked them to fill out the donation slip and to change the address it was mailed too, to be their home so they can continue to fill it out. I think this is still a good way of getting it paid first in the month and having to think about it less.

I have a two reasons why I think this is best:
1) The member should be the one filling out the donation slip
2) Clerks and Counselors have enough to do when counting
Think about half the ward or more doing this and asking the clerk and counselor to fill out the donation slip.

With funds going directly to CHQ I also have a concern.
1) There are some members I would not be comfortable with them simply telling me they were full tithe payers and my not having any accounting of what has been paid.

There would need to be some tie to a membership number and therefore the ward with true EFT to CHQ so that then the bishop could run a report to get those numbers. This would eliminate earlier concerns of larger donations and confidentiality.

Just my feelings on the topic.
Troy
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johnshaw
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#14

Post by johnshaw »

With funds going directly to CHQ I also have a concern.
1) There are some members I would not be comfortable with them simply telling me they were full tithe payers and my not having any accounting of what has been paid.
Help me understand... Why is tithing any different than other principles of the gospel, TR questions are trust-related, mostly the individual self-certifying that what they are saying is true. Only when prompted would a leader challenge a member on this point, and a loving conversation would ensue.

I feel very unconfortable with the idea that the quote seemed to indicate... just my own 2 cents.
lajackson
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#15

Post by lajackson »

JohnShaw wrote:Help me understand...

You have heard from a bishop with actual experience who knows his members well. Note that he said "some members", and I suspect, from my own personal experience, that there are very few. But I have had members look me in the eye during temple recommend interviews and tell me they were full tithe payers, when the truth was that they had never paid a dime.

In the meantime, I am excited that CHQ is working on a way to pay electronically. We discussed this with a visiting general authority not too long ago. He is from another country. When he moved to Salt Lake, he asked his bishop for the electronic contribution information for his ward. The bishop asked him to send his tithing by check. He had never had a checking account before in his life. In his home country they do not use checks, and they paid all of their donations electronically through bank transfers.

Reading between the lines, it sounds as if this will become a possibility in the US in the not too distant future. I certainly hope so.

And as Alan says, patience.
wrpdmd
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#16

Post by wrpdmd »

SheffieldTR wrote:
With funds going directly to CHQ I also have a concern.
1) There are some members I would not be comfortable with them simply telling me they were full tithe payers and my not having any accounting of what has been paid.

Troy

I understand that; but that does already happen when stock or other like items are donated directly to CHQ.

I suppose one difference is that most people don't pay all their tithing through stock!

For personal reasons, I think the ability of people to donate without the local unit knowing is needed.
SheffieldTR
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#17

Post by SheffieldTR »

wrpdmd wrote:I understand that; but that does already happen when stock or other like items are donated directly to CHQ.

I suppose one difference is that most people don't pay all their tithing through stock!

For personal reasons, I think the ability of people to donate without the local unit knowing is needed.
I knew by the nature of the forum that some would not like what I said. That's fine.

But there is a HUGE difference between TITHING and OTHER donations! One is bound by covenant (that must be accounted for to the proper ordained authority) and the other is bound by conscience and ability. I'll say it again, HUGE difference! Let other donations go to CHQ, unless they are for the ward mission fund. But if Tithing goes there then give the bishop the ability to review it.
tortdog
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#18

Post by tortdog »

I'm sure that we are off far beyond the purpose of this forum, but how is a Bishop to "review" the tithing of a person when he doesn't even ask how much "income" the person has? That's not a "review," that's a guess, if anything. Beyond that, would the Bishop do follow ups when in response to his question on whether the amount on the statement represents a full tithe and the member says, "No. I gave some amounts via e-pay/contributions to SLC at well." Does the Bishop then have the right to ask for a production of a report for those contributions as well?

No.

And he doesn't ask to see a list of videos that the member has checked out to determine if he is morally chaste. He doesn't ask to see a list of associations that a member belongs to "review" whether the member associates with organizations that are opposed to the Church.

It is ALL based on trust, with honestly of the member inherent in the priesthood authorities making decisions. Only when the priesthood authorities become aware through outside sources that the member is lying does a "review" enter into the equation. And even then, it doesn't matter if the member lies to the Bishop and the Bishop knows about it. The Bishop can't fix a liar, and the liar gets no blessings anyway. Disciplinary proceedings lack any value (absent public figure situations) when a "bad" member lies about his sins and refuses to accept responsibility for the wrong doing. Discipline is focused on repentance, and if the person refuses to accept responsibility there is not basis to proceed.

It's all about internal honesty, not about "bishop review".

Just my view.
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#19

Post by jdlessley »

Moderator caution: Before anyone posts to this thread to continue the comments afforded in the past few posts, please remember two things. The first is the topic of this thread as identified in the lead post. The second is that we do not discuss policy matters that are best discussed with local leaders (see the forum Code of Conduct).
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tortdog
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#20

Post by tortdog »

I was kind of expecting that . . .
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