Audio System Line out has distortion/clipping

Discussions around meetinghouse sound systems, microphones, assisted listening devices, and translation equipment
russellhltn
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Re: Audio System Line out has distortion/clipping

Postby russellhltn » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:26 pm

EarloftheWest wrote:You had the cell phone on the tripod, and you had the sound from the sound system plugged into the cell phone?
Correct. And it worked beautifully. But I had to custom-build the cable. You're not likely to find anything locally.
EarloftheWest wrote:Did you say that the sound from the sound system AND the cell phone microphone were being broadcast at the same time?
The reason I used a cable is early testing showed the sound using just the built-in mic was very poor. Since then, I've determined it was caused by the voice of the person at the podium mixing with the sound from the sound system. Direct and amplified. The human ear can filter it out. A microphone cannot.

Using a cell phone with the built-in mic keeps things very simple, but some care needs to be taken to insure the sound is understandable.
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EarloftheWest
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Re: Audio System Line out has distortion/clipping

Postby EarloftheWest » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:50 pm

russellhltn wrote: The reason I used a cable is early testing showed the sound using just the built-in mic was very poor. Since then, I've determined it was caused by the voice of the person at the podium mixing with the sound from the sound system. Direct and amplified. The human ear can filter it out. A microphone cannot.
I'm still not quite getting it. My apologies.

If you have the sound system plugged into your cell phone, I would expect that the cell phone would only recognize the sound system as the audio input.

Like when I plug a headset into my cell phone - it disables the microphone on the cell phone and uses the mic on the headset.

It sounds like your cell phone is using both the sound system audio and the microphone on the cell phone. If so, how are you accomplishing that?

Sorry for belaboring this issue.

Thanks!

russellhltn
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Re: Audio System Line out has distortion/clipping

Postby russellhltn » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:06 pm

EarloftheWest wrote:If you have the sound system plugged into your cell phone, I would expect that the cell phone would only recognize the sound system as the audio input.
That is correct.


The question is why did I have to go that route? Why was the sound with just the built-in mic (which is so much less effort) so bad? The answer is the sound arriving directly from the person's mouth, when mixed with the sound arriving from the sound system speaker created (or can create) a really bad hard to understand result.

Believe it or not, you can hear the person directly - even as far back as the second row.

Consequently, some testing needs to be done to make sure a phone that is using the internal mic be located in a place where the sound is at least intelligible if not ideal.

If you can add an external mic or direct connection, by all means do so. But not all wards will have that option available to them immediately.
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EarloftheWest
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Re: Audio System Line out has distortion/clipping

Postby EarloftheWest » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:43 pm

russellhltn wrote: That is correct.
Thanks for your response that makes sense.

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Re: Audio System Line out has distortion/clipping

Postby russellhltn » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:05 pm

However, to muddy the waters some, with the Larix Broadcaster App, the default settings will use the built-in mic - even if you have an external source plugged in. You have to go into the settings to have it use the "External Mic". As far as I know, it won't use both - but then I haven't explored all the options.

That's one pitfall to watch out for when connecting the device to the sound system.
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EarloftheWest
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Re: Audio System Line out has distortion/clipping

Postby EarloftheWest » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:10 pm

From the perspective of...
"How do I get audio from the Chapel audio system (the REC OUT jack underneath the Sacrament table) into my computer?"
I had another thought.
I was wondering if line in to USB devices existed.
And I found several.
This one on Amazon for example:
DIGITNOW USB Audio Capture Card Grabber for Vinyl Cassette Tapes to Digital MP3 Converter, Support Mac & Windows 10/8.1/8 / 7 / Vista/XP

These things seem to be used to take audio from tape recorders (and other older recording devices) and let you digitize the recording.
The description says it can accept a line in source.
One reviewer for the above device suggested that it had low latency.
Another reviewer said this: "This is more of an obscure use case but the device also works fine on iOS with an Apple's Lightning to USB3 Camera Adapter."
I could see how this could be your audio device on Zoom and your webcam or camera could be your video source.
Thoughts on something like this?

russellhltn
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Re: Audio System Line out has distortion/clipping

Postby russellhltn » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:08 pm

That could work. Just keep in mind the line out is mono (left channel only). That's fixable with adapters. I'm not too sure how that would interface to a typical phone. But I suspect it takes up the same plug used to power the device - so the phone would have to be on battery power for the whole event. Not a deal killer, but some engineering issues.

The other idea is if you can find a line in to Bluetooth adapter. This would be more for "sending" your stereo rather than connecting your phone to your stereo. Maybe somethign like this. I just did a quick search and that's what I came up with. It's not a recommendation. Still has the mono to stereo issue.
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EarloftheWest
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Re: Audio System Line out has distortion/clipping

Postby EarloftheWest » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:08 pm

We tried something a bit different with the sound this past Sunday.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, we purchased the following item to attempt to solve our "how do we broadcast audio" problem:
Sescom LN2MIC-ZOOMH4N 3.5mm Line to Microphone Attenuation Cable for HDSLR Cameras

Here's the audio path:
REC OUT jack --> mono to stereo adapter --> Sescom attenuation cable --> mic input on our HDMI capture card.

The feedback from our viewers was that the sound was great. One listener said that it sounded just like they were in the chapel.
The same listener did mention that they had to turn the sound up a bit more than normal on their end.
I was listening on my phone while I was running the equipment and I probably had the sound up pretty high.
(Not sure if there's too much attenuation on the cable.)

I'm not sure if the attenuation cable we bought is the "right" cable for you but it appears to be working for our situation.

In concept, I really like using the sound from the Chapel sound system.

I hooked up another mic from the library to mic the piano. I did some A/B comparison with the mic close to the piano vs just letting the mic at the podium pick up the sound. I don't think I heard much of a difference.
However, I did notice some electrical static during the broadcast when the mic at the piano was turned on.

We're using an HDMI capture card so we have a camcorder hooked up to the capture card to provide the video input. It's nice to be able to zoom and pan, etc. But, it takes a bunch of effort to set things up before each meeting.
Unless you have someone who loves this kind of stuff, I would probably recommend coming off the Church audio into a cell phone with a decent camera and just put the phone on a tripod in front of the podium.
Setup and take down will be faster and less stuff to go wrong.

We're also using Zoom Webinar and I really like the platform.

Good luck!


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