HD Video Distribution in New Meetinghouses

Discussions around receiving, originating, and holding Church broadcasts and conferences in meetinghouses including schedules, setup, equipment, and support.
User avatar
Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
Posts: 3618
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:56 am
Location: Layton, UT

Re: HD Video Distribution in New Meetinghouses

Postby Mikerowaved » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:33 am

randysteck wrote:Since SDI equipment is pretty expensive...

Yes, it can be, but if you just need 1080p, SDI converters really aren't that bad. I just picked up a set of BlackMagic Design HDMI to SDI and SDI to HDMI converters for $59 each. They are around $15 cheaper if ordered without the 5V 2A micro-USB power supply (the same one used on many Android phones), if you happen to already have one laying around. A USB cable plugged into a notebook PC would work also.

Just tried them last night by converting an HD camera's 1080i output to SDI and feeding it into the RCA Video-IN jack in the back of our chapel. In the equipment rack, I took the signal from the coax and converted it back to HDMI, then plugged it into one of the building's TV sets on a cart. If you looked close, there was a slight degradation in the video quality, but from 4' away the picture looked great. I'd call it a successful test of something I might use for our next stake conference.

Yes, this is a far cry from HD distribution through the building, but not bad for a few baby steps first.
So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.

Hagothsen
Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:30 am
Location: Henderson, NV USA

Re: HD Video Distribution in New Meetinghouses

Postby Hagothsen » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:28 pm

I have gotten better results (empirically speaking) from my Monoprice converters, then my BlackMagic. I also try to keep everything 720P, including and especially source computers and cameras. I use our Decimator Design MD HX to ensure 720P is emanating from the various sources. It's all about latency, and every single conversion or manipulation of any kind introduces a few 10ths of a second more. I haven't been able to completely eliminate latency, but we're getting it further dialed down at each event. I'll probably work to use local audio (as opposed to building audio) in the Primary and RS rooms in the future, that will eliminate any perceived latency. The Young Women's room uses audio from the TV anyway, so perceived latency isn't an issue there. I'm just down to projectors in the gym. SDI projectors are out of the question, so I'll just have to find HDMI projectors to shave 10ths off the conversion from HDMI to VGA. Currently, our projectors in the gym are being fed by the encoded signal (channel 6), that needs a converter to downgrade from SDI to HDMI, then another converter from HDMI to CVBS, then through the encoder which home-runs to the first tap. From the tap to the VCR (channel 6), CVBS to an old Sony Projector. The other end of the tap runs to the other side of the gym, where there's another VCR/Projector. I think by eliminating all those conversion/encoding/decoding steps will drastically improve latency in the gym.

I'll use the Decimator MD HX initially to ensure 720P, then use it as the DA (distribution amplifier) to feed the building. I was using 1080i, but 720P just works smoother.

User avatar
Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
Posts: 3618
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:56 am
Location: Layton, UT

Re: HD Video Distribution in New Meetinghouses

Postby Mikerowaved » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:12 pm

Hagothsen wrote:I have gotten better results (empirically speaking) from my Monoprice converters, then my BlackMagic.

Interesting. I'll have to give them a try. I like that they're currently on sale too! :)

Hagothsen wrote:I also try to keep everything 720P, including and especially source computers and cameras.

Not much choice for me as the stake owns the Panasonic consumer video camera we use and it only has 1080i output. However, the BlackMagic Intensity Pro capture cards and Wirecast do a good job of converting on-the-fly and have a similar lag (a few frames) compared to receiving a native 720p input.

Hagothsen wrote:It's all about latency...

I'm in total agreement here.

Hagothsen wrote:I'm just down to projectors in the gym. SDI projectors are out of the question, so I'll just have to find HDMI projectors to shave 10ths off the conversion from HDMI to VGA. Currently, our projectors in the gym are being fed by the encoded signal (channel 6), that needs a converter to downgrade from SDI to HDMI, then another converter from HDMI to CVBS, then through the encoder which home-runs to the first tap. From the tap to the VCR (channel 6), CVBS to an old Sony Projector. The other end of the tap runs to the other side of the gym, where there's another VCR/Projector. I think by eliminating all those conversion/encoding/decoding steps will drastically improve latency in the gym.

If anything, you can maintain a higher signal quality without all those conversions. Talk to your FM folks about the possibility of trading in your Sony for one of the newer Epson projectors. Wide variety of inputs along with a brighter picture.
So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.

Hagothsen
Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:30 am
Location: Henderson, NV USA

Re: HD Video Distribution in New Meetinghouses

Postby Hagothsen » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:44 pm

I've asked about getting the newer Epson projectors. Short answer: No. Nearly all of the improvements thus far have come from Stake and personal budgets. The FM group covered the Teradek and electricity for the overhead camera in the back of the chapel. Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

Thankfully, I've got a Stake President who shares my affinity for improved production.

blainemoss
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:31 pm
Location: USA

Re: HD Video Distribution in New Meetinghouses

Postby blainemoss » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:29 pm

How are they holding up? Do you power them off between events? I tried SDI in my building with no luck. Just bought a set of these and did some initial testing today and it looks promising. Concerned about reliability. Thanks!

randysteck wrote:Since SDI equipment is pretty expensive, we tried a different approach to video distribution throughout a "legacy" building. (Our stake center dates to 1974). We used these units: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0107 ... UTF8&psc=1.

These do a very nice job of 1080P/30 throughout the building.

They relay an incoming HDMI signal over existing coax on one of 99 selectable channels. Multiple receivers work great with just one transmitter. We're using these now for overflow areas for stake conference piggybacking off the webcast to other sites, and satellite projection in the chapel. Interestingly, the satellite receiver only gives us SD for the chapel, but if we pull the signal from the HDMI port we get 720P. Using this in the chapel is MUCH better than the SD, plus it allows us to remove the antiquated SD modulators from equipment rack.

mevans
Senior Member
Posts: 1726
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 12:52 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: HD Video Distribution in New Meetinghouses

Postby mevans » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:24 am

Does anyone have experience with their buildings being upgraded to HDMI by the FM group and the resultant system? It looks like many people on this thread are trying to make things work in older buildings (ours goes back to the 1960s). We've had some A/V upgrades over the years. Now the FM group is putting in HDMI. The stake president wants to understand a little more about what he's getting (he's fairly aware of technical things) before he approves the deal. He hasn't seen enough detail about the how system will work to approve it yet. He's concerned that we might lose capabilities that we currently have. Based on my experience of A/V upgrades and reduced features over the years, I think he has a valid concern.

I've seen one building where the FM group did an HDMI upgrade. I got a quick tour of it by some helpful people striking after stake conference, but now that this upgrade is upon us, I want to go back and ask more questions :) I'm just wondering if anyone's been upgraded and using the system and has any wishes of things being done differently? The stake president seems to get some involvement in the discussion.

User avatar
johnshaw
Senior Member
Posts: 2110
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Syracuse, UT

Re: HD Video Distribution in New Meetinghouses

Postby johnshaw » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:37 am

I'm going through something similar that is a worry for me. Our old system had 2 inputs once the camera was mounted. The input from the overflow was almost made unusable except I happened to stop by when he was there and asked that it be kept so I could do all my camera mixing in the Library (a great distance from the chapel). So I'm nervous how I'll support 2 cameras in the HDMI system the FM has ordered. But that's my only concern at this point. It'll definitely improve the Primary and RS rooms CCTV from coax to HDMI.

In the past I've been able to use an output as input for broadcasting to support 2 cameras... I'm eager to hear what other's have had done though.
“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom.”
― Thomas Paine, Common Sense

User avatar
johnshaw
Senior Member
Posts: 2110
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Syracuse, UT

Re: HD Video Distribution in New Meetinghouses

Postby johnshaw » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

Interestingly enough mine just went through, Marshalls did the upgrade.

My biggest request of the Stake Presidency was that our CCTV was going really bad. One post we connect to in the Cultural Hall is bad, the other one is barely hanging on by a thread, if someone sneezes in the room it could knock the picture into fuzzylandville. The pictures are fading and don't look good. The feed I get in the Library looks great, but after it gets through all the wiring in the RS/P and Cultural Hall it's pretty bad and has gotten steadily worse.

We met with FM and he finally said, well, let's get you an upgrade... Great Fantastic....

What they did:
There is a new 1080p Camera mounted in the Chapel, It appears to be connecting as HDMI over Ethernet
There is an HDMI Input from the Podium, it appears to be connecting as HDMI over Ethernet
They brought it back to the Library Cabinet where they also hooked into the Satellite (the DVD Recorder/player was left in the cabinet, but not plugged in anywhere)
A new very small LCD panel is mounted replacing the ancient TV that used to serve us as a viewing station in the cabinet

There is a bunch of cabling stuffed back into the back of the cabinet, the USB/Console to control the camera - cables cut, removed that I have no idea where they've gone

Nothing was changed about the CCTV connections in the Cultural Hall, the RS and P rooms - which is what was the original request. So, Maybe I'll just need to figure that out myself. So the webcast is going to look great to other buildings, the people in the stake center will continue to see a bad picture - that daisy chain RG5 is really not great,
“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom.”

― Thomas Paine, Common Sense

mevans
Senior Member
Posts: 1726
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 12:52 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: HD Video Distribution in New Meetinghouses

Postby mevans » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:44 pm

Thanks for the info, johnshaw. Was there any explanation as to why they didn't upgrade the rest of the rooms? The building where I saw it done did get HDMI in the other rooms (using the Extron cat 6 connection someone referenced above).

Did they install HDMI out in the chapel for the projector for satellite broadcasts?

I'm wondering how the new systems handle video distribution. Since it's HDMI, we don't have TV channels. We currently have 5 modulators. I wonder how we'll distribute languages to different rooms. I'm especially curious how we'll do things like those multi-stake satellite conferences that start with a local opening exercise and then we have to switch to the satellite feed.

russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 26375
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

Re: HD Video Distribution in New Meetinghouses

Postby russellhltn » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:49 am

mevans wrote:We currently have 5 modulators. I wonder how we'll distribute languages to different rooms.

I guess that would depend on if the audio is distributed via the HDMI or some other way. Except for ASL, I think it's all the same video.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.


Return to “Broadcasts and Conferences”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest