Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use...Suggestions?

Discussions about using TVs, projectors, laptops, tablets, smartphones, DVD Players and other media players in meetinghouses including standards, management, how to connect to them, proper use, and support.
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gregwanderson
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Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Postby gregwanderson » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:48 am


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Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Postby kcmcbride » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:59 pm

We have 3 units in our building plus early morning Seminary for 8 units that all meet in our building (10 classes), and we can't get new TV's until the existing ones no longer function. We don't have 4 year old 22" LCDs, we have very year old small tube TVs with DVD/VCR players. I am being asked constantly by our teachers how to show video in the classroom. Nearly all of them have a mobile device (Android or iOS) that they want to connect to a TV. So teachers are beginning to bring in their own setups to take advantage of the new media (yes, including full TV and speaker equipment to play from their iOS device). Is the answer really for each of them to buy their own cables and speakers and in some cases, TV's and bring them in each week? (I don't know what the seminary teachers are doing...)

I'm sure the FM group is getting slammed with requests, that Church-wide everyone wants new equipment. What is the answer in the interim? I do not want the ward budget to pay for it (I agree with the earlier discussion about funds taken out of the youth programs), but if not FM, not ward, not stake then it falls back on to the teachers called, which doesn't feel right to me.

Problem is, there is no good answer right now. And we are 8 months into this new curriculum and teachers have not been able to use the media with much success. I can't tell you how many teachers tried and gave up on showing the videos during their lesson. I wish I could help them better.

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Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Postby russellhltn » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:16 pm

kcmcbride wrote:but if not FM, not ward, not stake then it falls back on to the teachers called, which doesn't feel right to me.


Or the last option - do without (for now).

I've seen this twice before: When MLS and Internet was each introduced. At first stakes could participate, but at their own cost, then later the church supplied the equipment though the FM group. In each case, the stake either found the money in their budget or went without.
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Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Postby gregwanderson » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:52 am

kcmcbride wrote:We have 3 units in our building plus early morning Seminary for 8 units that all meet in our building (10 classes), and we can't get new TV's until the existing ones no longer function. We don't have 4 year old 22" LCDs, we have very year old small tube TVs with DVD/VCR players.


If the TV can't play current material (and the church no longer supports VHS tapes in the distribution center... so you could claim that the tapes are no longer current) then I'd say your current gear "no longer functions." But you have DVD players, unfortunately, so someone else could push back on that assessment. Trouble is, there are no official DVDs of the current videos offered as a companion to the youth curriculum. So I'd still make the argument that your equipment "no longer functions" for the purposes needed.

When we were in a similar situation, someone from the stake or FM group kinda winked when they said, "As long as it's broken, we'll have to replace it. So just make sure it's broken." But I don't like playing games. I don't want to intentionally break something or lie about its functionality. Again, if it can't play the current curriculum then, in my mind, it's "broken."

Of course, you could find someone who knows how and would be willing to burn the current, downloadable videos onto DVDs as a stop-gap as long as your DVD players are working. I've done this for my own meetinghouse's wards.

I know that some around here will say we did a very bad thing when we bought new gear for our ward in the way that we bought it. But the Bishops agreed and we now have really useful stuff that (and this is the part that makes me the happiest) people use often! Personally, I think it's wonderful to have this stuff (and we still held Scout Camp this year without a problem).

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Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Postby Gary_Miller » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:31 pm

mrrad wrote:I know that some around here will say we did a very bad thing when we bought new gear for our ward in the way that we bought it. But the Bishops agreed and we now have really useful stuff that (and this is the part that makes me the happiest) people use often!
And that justifies not following church guidelines for funding equipment?

mrrad wrote:Personally, I think it's wonderful to have this stuff (and we still held Scout Camp this year without a problem).

Was that with or with out participates having to pay all or part costs, or having to do fund raisers to cover all or part of the costs? And would that be not only for Scout Camps but also YW camps and Cub Scout Day Camps as well?

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Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Postby russellhltn » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:09 pm

Gary_Miller wrote:church guidelines for funding equipment?


The operative word being "guideline". Guidelines allow exceptions.
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Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Postby gregwanderson » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:43 pm

Gary_Miller wrote:...And that justifies not following church guidelines for funding equipment?

...Was that with or with out participates having to pay all or part costs, or having to do fund raisers to cover all or part of the costs? And would that be not only for Scout Camps but also YW camps and Cub Scout Day Camps as well?


I sense some hostility in the way you're asking the questions, but I'll try to remain civil in my reply. Because of confusion over the way CUBS budgeting "guidelines" were interpreted, we happened to have an awful lot of leftover budget funds from previous years. (Not to be too specific, but it added up to more than 50% of a one-year budget that was surplus and, thanks to the way budget funds are handled now, it was just sitting there in our ward account.) The other two wards also had leftover funds from previous years. It was up to the Bishops to decide how to responsibly use that money and/or to return it to the stake… the same stake in which the leadership said they couldn't help us buy new equipment this year. So I suppose they could have given it back to the stake (which wasn't asking for it) and then requested that the stake return it so that we could spend it. Seems inefficient at best.

As for the annual youth fundraising activity, we certainly did consider canceling it this year. But it was decided that the youth needed the experience of volunteering their participation, or, in other words, "It would do them some good to work on this and feel a sense of responsibility for this funding." Also, since our annual fundraiser happens as part of the community's July 4th celebration, if we decided not to participate there was concern that the community would find someone else to offer the service and we wouldn't be able to "get our place back" in the future when we'd definitely need the funding again.

And, in the end, we had all three Bishops agree to this plan. So I'll let them decide if they can sleep well at night. Now we have equipment that is used as opposed to the old equipment that wasn't being used at all. Electronic equipment that is never used might as well be in a dumpster already.

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Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Postby Gary_Miller » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:54 am

russellhltn wrote:The operative word being "guideline". Guidelines allow exceptions.

Here lye's the problem.

Know where in the training material do you find that the established guideline are there to follow unless its felt that it could be do differently. Its says the guidelines are to be followed period and has specific instructions on circumstances that may permit local adaptation. And purchasing of equipment is not one of the adaptations.

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Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Postby Gary_Miller » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:13 am

mrrad wrote:I sense some hostility in the way you're asking the questions, but I'll try to remain civil in my reply.

Not hostile at all. Just concerned that families are having financial burdens placed upon them because leaders decided to not follow established local unit budget allowance policies.

mrrad wrote: Because of confusion over the way CUBS budgeting "guidelines" were interpreted, we happened to have an awful lot of leftover budget funds from previous years.

Interesting since the budgeting policies on how the funds are to be used have not changed very much since the LUBA was first established. Which was long before CUBS.

mrrad wrote: The other two wards also had leftover funds from previous years. It was up to the Bishops to decide how to responsibly use that money and/or to return it to the stake… the same stake in which the leadership said they couldn't help us buy new equipment this year. So I suppose they could have given it back to the stake (which wasn't asking for it) and then requested that the stake return it so that we could spend it. Seems inefficient at best.

The handbook is very specific on what to do with surplus funds and what surplus funds can be held/used for. For the record its not to fund media equipment.

mrrad wrote: As for the annual youth fundraising activity, we certainly did consider canceling it this year. But it was decided that the youth needed the experience of volunteering their participation, or, in other words, "It would do them some good to work on this and feel a sense of responsibility for this funding." Also, since our annual fundraiser happens as part of the community's July 4th celebration, if we decided not to participate there was concern that the community would find someone else to offer the service and we wouldn't be able to "get our place back" in the future when we'd definitely need the funding again.

Interesting that the Funding of Activities policy does not use any of this when determining if a fundraiser would be appropriate and necessary.

mrrad wrote:And, in the end, we had all three Bishops agree to this plan. So I'll let them decide if they can sleep well at night. Now we have equipment that is used as opposed to the old equipment that wasn't being used at all. Electronic equipment that is never used might as well be in a dumpster already.

How I wish that just once a Audit would be given that looks at what funds are being used for to ensure they are with in established church policies, instead of just making sure the proper documentation is on file.

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Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Postby lajackson » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:53 am

mrrad wrote:I sense some hostility in the way you're asking the questions, but I'll try to remain civil in my reply.

I sense more of a frustration. Within his area of jurisdiction and responsibility, and with the support of his bishop and stake president, what Gary_Miller says is perfectly fine. But his interpretation, no matter how well intentioned and heartfelt, does not have application outside that jurisdiction.

We do not know the circumstances under which other leaders function. What others choose to do under the direction of their priesthood leaders, who may very well have been granted exceptions even to the Handbook, is up to them.

There are many gospel principles on which I feel very strongly and cannot fathom how others might feel differently. But sometimes they do. And I just have to let it go.

Agency and stewardship. What a powerful combination.


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