Non Member Spouses

Discussions around using and interfacing with the Church MLS program.
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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:57 pm

znauga wrote:3. If there is no objection I go to her record, request a non member record be created for spouse and show the spouse as head of household.


Thanks for the additional details. However, I'm still a bit unclear on what is happening. What you describe above is not exactly possible. If you are going to the member wife's record, there is no way to directly "request a nonmember record be created for spouse." All you can do is enter information on her Current Spouse panel for the nonmember spouse. This does not create a record for the nonmember husband.


Once you have done that, you can close her record and come back in, at which point you will discover a new option on the Current Spouse panel for "Add Spouse to Household." Choosing that options does several things:
  • Creates a nonmember record for the spouse.
  • Makes the husband the Head of Household
  • Makes the wife (who was formerly HoH) the Spouse


Earlier, you said that you explicitly create a nonmember record for the nonmember husband, but that cannot be done from the wife's record. Which method do you actually use?

znauga
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Postby znauga » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:26 pm

Alan_Brown wrote:Thanks for the additional details. However, I'm still a bit unclear on what is happening. What you describe above is not exactly possible. If you are going to the member wife's record, there is no way to directly "request a nonmember record be created for spouse." All you can do is enter information on her Current Spouse panel for the nonmember spouse. This does not create a record for the nonmember husband.


Once you have done that, you can close her record and come back in, at which point you will discover a new option on the Current Spouse panel for "Add Spouse to Household." Choosing that options does several things:
  • Creates a nonmember record for the spouse.
  • Makes the husband the Head of Household
  • Makes the wife (who was formerly HoH) the Spouse


Earlier, you said that you explicitly create a nonmember record for the nonmember husband, but that cannot be done from the wife's record. Which method do you actually use?


It is as you describe above. I was a membership clerk in three different wards from 1991 to late 2007. Then a Ward Clerk until January of this year. Now serving as Stake membership clerk. I appreciate your effort to understand the procedure I used so that you can provide a possible solution. I apologize for confusion.

In the two wards in which I was most recently a membership clerk I did follow the procedure you describe:
"Add Spouse to Household." Choosing that options does several things:
  • Creates a nonmember record for the spouse.
  • Makes the husband the Head of Household
  • Makes the wife (who was formerly HoH) the Spouse


In many cases the non member spouse information was already on the wife's record.

In any event from time to time the program, so far as I could determine, spontaneously would show the non member husband as head of house and move the wife to the position of a child or "other" in the family group as printed in ward list. CHQ indicated there was a bug in the program. It has been about six years and we still have the problem.
I find myself reluctant to encourage the wards in our stake to identify non member husbands as head of family until the problem (my method or the "bug") is resolved.

Again, thank you for your help and suggestions.
znauga

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:38 pm

Alan_Brown wrote:What you describe above is not exactly possible. If you are going to the member wife's record, there is no way to directly "request a nonmember record be created for spouse." All you can do is enter information on her Current Spouse panel for the nonmember spouse. This does not create a record for the nonmember husband.


"Request" is a poor choice of words, but it is otherwise correct. Open up the Individual Record of a member with a non-member spouse. (Use "Brown, Nancy Lee" in the test database). Goto the "Current Spouse" section. Observe the "Add Spouse to Household" link in the upper right corner. Click on it. Note the link disappears. Now go to the Household Members section for the same individual and notice the results.
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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:41 pm

RussellHltn wrote:"Request" is a poor choice of words, but it is otherwise correct. Open up the Individual Record of a member with a non-member spouse. (Use "Brown, Nancy Lee" in the test database). Goto the "Current Spouse" section. Observe the "Add Spouse to Household" link in the upper right corner. Click on it. Note the link disappears. Now go to the Household Members section for the same individual and notice the results.


If you would read my entire post, not just the first paragraph, that's exactly what I described.

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Postby russellhltn » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:51 pm

Oops. <sigh> So much for my reading comprehension.
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Non member spouses Reply to Thread

Postby znauga » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:41 pm

I have recently sent an Email to Local Unit Support at CHQ detailing the problem. Their response follows:

"[Answer to your message]

We are aware of this issue and we are sorry for the inconvenience this may have caused you.

MSR Support Staff -vrr"

Thank you for your efforts to provide a solution. It appears that the final resolution is in the hands of the programmers.

znauga

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Mikerowaved
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Postby Mikerowaved » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:55 pm

While they are at it, I seriously think they should do a bit of error checking with the non-member's temporary record and make sure the sex can't be set to be the same as the member spouse. (Oops. :o)
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leimana-p40
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Postby leimana-p40 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:31 am

znauga wrote:First let me thank you all for helping me to find a solution to the problem we are experiencing.

The procedure I have used when a membership clerk was as follows:

1. Upon receipt of a sister member's record (with or without children) I audit the record for accuracy.

2. If the record indicates the sister is married to a non member, contact is made with her to confirm the accuracy of the marriage information. I also inquire if she or her husband have any objection to his name appearing on our ward list as the head of the family.

3. If there is no objection I go to her record, request a non member record be created for spouse and show the spouse as head of household.

Where there is no objection from the member or spouse I see acknowledging the husband as head of household as a courtesy (I may be old fashioned). It also more accurately reflects the make up of the family in the ward list. To omit the husband makes it appear that the head of household sister is unmarried.

If I have not followed the correct/preferred procedure I need to learn the best way to do this. The next task is to be sure the correct procedure is followed by membership clerks in our stake.

Once again, thank you for your patience and your help.

znauga

Ok so I hope this helps...When you receive a membershp record and the member is married to a non-member this is what you should do for it to appear correctly.
Go into the member's individual membership record
Click on Current Spouse
If the marriage information is not already recorded go ahead and enter it all in.
Close the record then go back into the individual record
Select Current Spouse
Then a button will appear that states "Add Spouse to household" click on it
Doing this will automatically put him as the head of household and everything else should appear correctly.
NOw
If the marriage is already recorded then "Add Spouse to Household" will already be there and you would just simply click on it. Which will add the spouse to the household automatically.

Therefore, you do not have to go in and create the non-member record first because by following this process, MLS creates the non-member record for you. All you have to do is simply make sure the marriage information is there then click on the magic "Add Spouse to Household" button and it will do the work for you.

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:49 am

leimana wrote:Therefore, you do not have to go in and create the non-member record first because by following this process, MLS creates the non-member record for you. All you have to do is simply make sure the marriage information is there then click on the magic "Add Spouse to Household" button and it will do the work for you.


Thanks for trying to help. However, I covered this procedure in my initial response on this thread:

Alan_Brown wrote:... you can edit the Individual record of the member wife, go to the Current Spouse panel, and click Edit. Then you add the information for the husband, selecting No for "Is a Member?". You close the wife's Individual record, then edit it once again. Now there is a link on the Current Spouse panel for "Add Spouse to Household". Click on that link, and then when you go to the Household Members panel, you see that the husband is now the Head of Household, and the wife is the spouse.


The problem is that znauga says that even when he follows this procedure and it works, that somehow mysteriously the household record gets changed by MLS:

znauga wrote:... from time to time the program, so far as I could determine, spontaneously would show the non member husband as head of house and move the wife to the position of a child or "other" in the family group as printed in ward list. CHQ indicated there was a bug in the program. It has been about six years and we still have the problem.


I have never heard of such a bug; every problem like this with households I have been able to track down to user error and once it is fixed, it stays fixed. But if you read this entire thread, you can see that we have been through all the possibilities with user error, and znauga still says that the problem happens spontaneously at some point after proper procedures have been followed. Furthermore, he claims that Clerk Support has acknowledged that this "bug" exists.

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Postby russellhltn » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:58 am

znauga, I'm trying to think of what could be the trigger for the corruption.

Any possibility that the corruption is happening when the member's marriage is acknowledged by SLC? Are you recording the marriage and creating the non-member at the same time or are you just creating the non-member record on a "old" marriage (update sent and received back)?
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