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The policy is not being debated - it's the implementation of the policy
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:29 am
As has already been mentioned, the new handbook of instructions gives the responsibility of overseeing the recording and distribution of the MP ordination record and certificate to the stake president and stake clerk. With the exact same wording, it gives the responsibility for recording and distributing Aaronic priesthood ordination forms and certificates to bishops and ward clerks.
In our stake, we have also had the same problems as has been mentioned. I spent quite some time trying to figure out an efficient way of making sure that the ordination record is not lost, and couldn't figure it out to my satisfaction because of the need of getting the form back to the wards. I would also find it greatly beneficial if I could enter this information directly. I also think that this would be most in keeping with the current church policy as contained in the current handbook of instructions.
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:25 am
HPaulsen wrote:In our stake, we have also had the same problems as has been mentioned. I spent quite some time trying to figure out an efficient way of making sure that the ordination record is not lost
You could use custom fields/custom reports to track it. Enter something in a custom field when the person has been "selected" and then do a custom report that matches the field and Priesthood office to list those not done.
But that still leaves a problem with members who move out. You can't do a report on a record you don't have.
Policy is good. MLS Could be updated to reflect Policy.
Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:49 pm
Melchizedek Priesthood Ordinations are a Stake event.
We are doing the best we can with the current MLS set up. Here is how it goes.
1. Ward Unit prints out initial interview paper for Bishops Priesthood interview and sign.
2. Member calls to make an appointment with Stake Presidency member for 2nd interview and signs.
3.Copies are made and kept at the Stake Offices and Ward Units.
4. During a Stake Conference member is sustained Elder or High Priest.
5. After Stake Conference member is ordained.
Here is where the trouble and error begins.
6. Ward Clerk or Membership Clerk has to be present to record who does what, what stake Presidency member is present etc. Stake Clerk is also present taking notes.
7. Ward Clerk or Membership Clerk most of the time Membership Clerk returns to Unit to enter and update Priesthood Ordinance information in MLS, print certificate and send.
8. Then Membership Clerk must go back to Stake Offices to give certificate to Stake Clerk to have the Stake President review and sign certificate.
9. Then Stake Clerk must go back to Unit or make Ward Membership Clerk return to Stake Offices to pick up completed certificate and then present to Member.
This can take many weeks to a few months or more depending on many factors. Many chances for error and lost time. Combersome.
Why not allow Stake ordinances to be recorded and printed by Stake. Unit ordinances to be recorded and printed by Units?
This is not a complaint, or dispute in any way with or towards policy. This is a suggestion made towards technology and MLS for future resolve to this problem.
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:40 am
Just as a note, the stake CAN print the certificate, even though the ordnance has not yet been recorded into MLS.
So the stake can do everything except update the record. For that, they can send a copy of the certificate to the ward and have the ward update it. They also need to track and make sure the ward does their part. I think that would be a little bit simpler then the process you've outlined.
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:59 pm
You can also print a MP ordination certificate at the ward level. Pass it on to the High Councilor in charge of the ward, and have him give it to Stake Presidency at High Council meeting. May only take a few weeks to a month instead of your usual 3 to 4 to get it.
Recording out-of Stake Ordinations
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:07 am
Many of our young men are ordained to Elder and then leave for college. It makes it difficult to verify the ordination has been recorded when they are no longer members of the stake. Any recommendations on how to verify the ordination has been recorded for someone out of the stake?
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:30 am
michaeldanobrien wrote:Many of our young men are ordained to Elder and then leave for college. It makes it difficult to verify the ordination has been recorded when they are no longer members of the stake. Any recommendations on how to verify the ordination has been recorded for someone out of the stake?
I'm guessing that most stakes face this issue to some degree. Our stake certainly does. There are a couple of distinct situations:
- The ordination did get recorded by the ward, but the record was moved out before the stake ever saw it recorded in stake MLS. The stake does need to verify that the ordination occurred, so in this case, we contact the ward clerk and ask if he recorded it. In our stake, the ward clerks usually prepare the ordination certificates, so if the certificate was printed, that's sufficient verification that the ordination did occur.
- The ordination happened in the stake, but the record was moved out before the ward clerk recorded the ordination. This moves the issue from simple verification to recording. In this case, we have the ward clerk request the record, record the ordinance and print the certificate, and then move the record back out immediately to the ward it was just moved from. The ordination has to get recorded, and this seems like the only reasonable way to record it and get a certificate signed by the right people. This can all be done in a couple of days, and if it's done in the middle of the week, chances are that the temporary disappearance of the record won't cause any problems for the student ward.
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:21 am
Alan_Brown wrote:and if it's done in the middle of the week, chances are that the temporary disappearance of the record won't cause any problems for the student ward.
What about the contact information? Wouldn't that be lost?
Unfortunately, the only other option I see is to do a special request to see if CHQ can do it. But I don't know if that would work.
I think the best way to deal with it is to insure that it's recorded the same day. That's going to take a team approach to insure that the process the stake uses will allow for that to happen.
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:32 am
Being a stake clerk over a student stake I would definitely have to disagree about pulling records not being a problem. A singles ward Bishop has to deal with 100-200 new faces at the beginning of the semester, playing what we refer to as records tag does not help the situation.
When a record is pulled it will have the new unit listed on your move in/out sheets that print when records are moved. Before you pull the record back, I'd suggest contacting the Bishop of the ward the member was moved to (you can find it on the CDOL). I would agree, the most ideal situation is to just get the ordination recorded before it even becomes an issue.
I would say about 30% of the 18 year-olds that come in every year have a missing ordination record, which is way too high.
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:39 am
RussellHltn wrote:I think the best way to deal with it is to insure that it's recorded the same day. That's going to take a team approach to insure that the process the stake uses will allow for that to happen.
I'm sure everyone would agree with this statement. We do everything we can to make sure this happens. But since the process involves imperfect people, occasionally a record gets pulled before the ordination gets recorded. I was simply addressing that possibility, not recommending it as standard procedure.
RussellHltn wrote:What about the contact information? Wouldn't that be lost?
That's possible, and certainly a downside. But not having an ordinance recorded seems worse.
RussellHltn wrote:Unfortunately, the only other option I see is to do a special request to see if CHQ can do it. But I don't know if that would work.
I don't know the answer to that, either. But even if it's possible, it doesn't allow for the certificate to get printed and signed.