LDS Linux

Discussions around miscellaneous technologies and projects for the general membership.
richardsontb
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Postby richardsontb » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:26 am

Your are correct. It is an empty template. The code is as follows:
[INDENT]<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//WAPFORUM//DTD XHTML Mobile 1.0//EN" "http://www.wapforum.org/DTD/xhtml-mobile10.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<title>mobi</title>
<meta http-equiv='Content-Type' content='application/xhtml+xml;charset=utf-8' />
<meta http-equiv="Cache-Control" content="max-age=200" />
<style type="text/css">
.header {
margin: 0;
padding: 4px;
background: black none repeat scroll 0% 50%;
text-align: center;
color: white;
}
.footer {
margin: 0;
padding: 0px;
background: black none repeat scroll 0% 50%;
color: white;
text-align: center;
}
a {
text-decoration: none;
color: #990000;
}
a:hover {
text-decoration: none;
color: #666666;
}
.content {
margin: 0;
padding: 5px;
background: white none repeat scroll 0% 50%;
text-align: left;
color: black;
}
</style>
</head>
<body>
<div class="header">header</div>
<div class="content">content</div>
<div class="footer">footer</div>
</body>
</html>

[/INDENT]Now, compare this with almost an exact duplicate, but using standard encoding:
[INDENT]<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
<title>Todd Richardson</title>

<link rel="stylesheet" href="style.css" type="text/css" />
</head>

<body>
<div id="container">
<div id="topheader"> <span id="title">Todd
Richardson</span></div>
<div id="main">
Text
</div>
<div id="footer"></div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
[/INDENT]and a standard CSS file:

[INDENT]body {
margin: 0;
background-color: #f4f4f4;
padding-left: 50%;
}
a {
text-decoration: none;
color: #990000;
}
a:hover {
text-decoration: underline;
color: #666666;
}
#container {
width: 600px;
margin-left: -300px;
}
#topheader {
background-color: black;
height: 50px;
}
#title {
margin: 5px;
font-size: 24px;
color: #ffffff;
}
#main {
padding: 5px;
width: 590px;
font-size: 11pt;
text-align: left;
}
#footer {
color: #ffffff;
text-align: center;
vertical-align: middle;
background-color: black;
height: 25px;
}
[/INDENT]
One of the biggest difference is that standard web pages use iso-8859-1 whereas the "mobile" page uses utf-8. However, there are a lot of little differences.

Todd

richardsontb
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Postby richardsontb » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:57 am

J D Lessley wrote, "What is LDSOS? What is it's purpose?" The purpose of an "in house" operating system would be that of self reliance. This becomes more relevant as the economy takes a nose dive.

The Church is going to a “LDS Account” system. This system is largely web based with an Oracle back end. Up to now, the roll-outs of this system seem very compatible with my Linux system I have at home.

Why not form a Linux community and develop our own system?

Todd

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mkmurray
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Postby mkmurray » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:53 am

I'll make my responses in reverse order...for some reason it will make sense that way... :)
todd wrote:Why not form a Linux community and develop our own system?

Very interesting and intriguing idea. But I don't understand the "why" part completely yet. I'll ask further clarifying questions below...
todd wrote:The Church is going to a “LDS Account” system. This system is largely web based with an Oracle back end. Up to now, the roll-outs of this system seem very compatible with my Linux system I have at home.

I'm not sure why you mentioned LDS Account in relation to your proposal of an in-house operating system. As I've been writing this response, I've been able to come up with a guess that perhaps you can confirm.

You mentioned the "system is largely web based," which is 100% true because it is a unified web authentication system. It's main purpose up until a few months ago was only for internal purposes within the Church's systems at Church Headquarters. It is branching out, in that members of the Church (and perhaps in the future, it appears non-members as well) can now receive one of these accounts and eventually be allowed to authenticate to all things LDS on the web via this new credential system.

You also mentioned the system has "an Oracle back end." Now I don't know where you got that info, but that's really irrelevant anyway. What's really confusing me is how the database back-end even matters for what you are proposing. Is part of your proposal to host LDS Account within your LDSOS in some way? If so, what for? I don't think the Church would allow that, as the authentication needs to remain hosted and controlled solely by the Church in order to remain secure. Now perhaps the Church could provide a web service of some kind where you could send LDS Account credentials and have them be authenticated and confirmed; I guess this would allow volunteer Community members to write software that utilized LDS Account credentials, but I'm still having a hard time envisioning what you would need that for.

EDIT: Now if this is for Church computers, then perhaps you are suggesting we could run LDS Account right in the OS, perhaps for software like MLS or even logon to the computer OS in general? A very intriguing idea indeed. But again, the credential storage needs to remain in a central, secure location at Church Headquarters, and not in a distributed fashion. So if that's the case, then what is needed is for internet access every time a logon authentication is required, and that would be dependent on a reliable broadband internet access in my opinion. This program is only beginning to roll out and probably couldn't yet be relied on for all ward computers to have such an internet connection.
todd wrote:J D Lessley wrote, "What is LDSOS? What is it's purpose?" The purpose of an "in house" operating system would be that of self reliance. This becomes more relevant as the economy takes a nose dive.

I can understand the proposal of an operating system that members of the Church can choose to use and not be "dependent" on proprietary (and paid, for that matter) operating systems. I'm not really sure what the advantage of an LDSOS is if it's based on some other Linux distribution. This is what I haven't understood from your proposal yet...what will this special operating system do that others can't do? Why not just advocate Linux in general? The only thing I can think of is to have a Linux distribution that has pre-packed in the OS some LDS-centric software. But couldn't we also just create some kind of package distributable for an existing Linux OS?

Let me just clarify one other key point (as my questions in the above paragraph may have misunderstood your original idea proposal)...from the first post in the thread, it appears you mean a Linux distribution used in Church meetinghouses for the administrative computers and the Family History Center computers, as opposed to a general purpose LDS Linux distribution to be used in the homes of members. Is this correct? If this is what you are proposing, than you are hoping that we the Community could build this customized OS on behalf of the Church for distribution to all the Church meetinghouses, right?

This would assume that the Church would first approve the project idea, and then oversee and sponsor it as well. This idea of using Linux for ward and FHC computers is certainly no stranger to these message boards. The debate has become heated at times and we Moderators had to carefully guide the discussion to remain a productive one, and not let it become a fruitless argument. I will provide you with a few links pointing to posts from a Church employee on the idea of Linux on Church computers:

Here is a link describing the current obstacles and difficulties of running the MLS software on Linux: http://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?p=8150#post8150

And here is a link describing the management issues the Church IT department could face switching the computers to Linux (but the post is a positive one in that it appears the Church is continually keeping the Linux option open): http://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?p=8933#post8933

And this last link asks that we keep the discussion about Linux on Church computers focused and civilized, leaving the ultimate decision to Church IT and other leadership while not criticizing them for their decision: http://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?p=166#post166

Now if you hope to go off and start a Community development project to create and LDSOS for Church computers on your own without Church involvement, my personal feelings are that the venture will likely be unsuccessful. If the Church computers really are the target for this LDSOS idea, then I would think you need the support and sponsorship from the Church right from the very beginning.

Please forgive my confusion about this whole topic, but I hope you can elaborate more on your idea. Thanks.
Many questions are already answered on the LDSTech wiki. Check it out!

richardsontb
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Postby richardsontb » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:18 am

RussellHltn wrote, “…the Church runs an Enterprise-level IT system. What percentage of enterprise-class businesses run *nix as a desktop OS? In the past the Church as left things up to local units, but with Desktop 5.5 and LANDesk, I'm seeing them moving toward enterprise-like setups.” (see http://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?p=8150#post8150)

Russell, of course, is right. So are you. I would like LDSOS to be the desktop OS. I must be pacient.

Todd

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nbflint
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Postby nbflint » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:39 am

I was recently looking at filtering software to make a linux installation more family friendly and I ran into Ubuntu CE (Christian Edition). http://ubuntuce.com/ The big feature is that it comes pre-loaded with Dans Guardian (internet filtering software), but it includes some other christian related things like random scriptures on the desktop and background images etc.

I'm new to linux, but very interested in it. I am finding more people I know curious about linux but not sure how to start. I'd love to hand them a LDSUbuntu live cd and say, "Here, have fun!"


russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:31 pm

At this point I think the most likely need for a LDSOS is for something functional but dirt simple for a "family safe" PC. Maybe even as a live CD so a parent could pop the CD in the drive, boot to it and have something safe for the kids to play with.

Most people are computer literate, but not techies. They need something to keep them safe from the all the malware out there.
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rmrichesjr
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Postby rmrichesjr » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:25 pm

RussellHltn wrote:At this point I think the most likely need for a LDSOS is for something functional but dirt simple for a "family safe" PC. Maybe even as a live CD so a parent could pop the CD in the drive, boot to it and have something safe for the kids to play with.

Most people are computer literate, but not techies. They need something to keep them safe from the all the malware out there.


A Live CD distribution would be advantageous in many ways on the malware issue for families that just want to browse the web, access web mail, etc.. One usual disadvantage of a Live CD environment is slowness caused by reading binaries and data files from the CD. A tech-support person I was talking with yesterday evening mentioned he runs a Live CD Linux that overcomes that disadvantage by loading everything from the CD into RAM and then runs from RAM. One way this could be done would be to modify the paging algorithm in the kernel. Another would be to reserve a block of RAM, copy the CD to that block of RAM, and then use that area as a RAM disk.

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:43 pm

How practical is a "live thumb"? Some drives have write protect switches. 2GB drives are not that expensive and can be bought at Wal-Mart. Not as good as RAM, but faster than CD.
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rmrichesjr
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Postby rmrichesjr » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:57 pm

RussellHltn wrote:How practical is a "live thumb"? Some drives have write protect switches. 2GB drives are not that expensive and can be bought at Wal-Mart. Not as good as RAM, but faster than CD.


I haven't used one, but I would be pretty confident they would work well, provided the hardware and BIOS can boot from a USB device, etc. They're definitely available. For example, and just for an example, Mandriva sells some with its distribution on them. IIRC, they come set up with a user storage area in addition to the OS area. A hardware write-protect switch would be advantageous if malware were a major concern, but that would conflict with a user storage area on the same device.

There is one disadvantage of a Live CD or Live Thumb OS over an OS installed on fixed media. Security updates for browsers and some other system software happen pretty frequently. With a fixed-media installation, you just install the updated package. With Live CD, someone has to remaster the CD, and the users have to burn a new disc. With Live Thumb, the process could involve just flipping the write-protect switch to write the update (and accepting a brief period of vulnerability to malware getting in) and flipping the switch back when finished. Or, the process could be similar to that for a CD.

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marianomarini
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Postby marianomarini » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:56 pm

I hope my English is good enough to explain my point of view about LDSLinux.
We can not be sure that Linux will remain safe and secure. Now it lies under various communities. I feel that an LDS community is more trustworthy, especcialy in the future.
So, now I trust Ubuntu community and I use its distibution, but tomorrow?
World is going always worst, will be Open Source IT immune of it?
La vita è una lezione interminabile di umiltà (Anonimo).
Life is a endless lesson of humility (Anonimous).


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