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Priests ordaining Deacons, Teachers, Priests

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:36 pm
by daniel.scheer31@gmail.com
The question has arisen regarding the ordaining of Deacons, Teachers, and Priests by a Melchizedek priesthood holder while a Priest is standing in the circle. The question is, is the ordination performed by the Melchizedek or Aaronic priesthood, which in turn begs question of whether or not it is "I" ordain you or "We" ordain you, in which instance I understand that it would be by the authority of the Aaronic priesthood. My understanding is that it is the individual who is giving voice to the ordination, therefore "I" should be used, and in turn it is the priesthood of the individual doing the ordaining that should be indicated.

Please advise.

Re: Priests ordaining Deacons, Teachers, Priests

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:47 pm
by russellhltn
As outlined in Handbook 2: 20.7.1, it's acceptable for a Priest to be in the circle if it's the Aaronic Priesthood that's being conferred.

While the manual doesn't say what authority is being used when an Elder ordains a Priest, speaking for myself, I'd find it odd for a Priest to be in the circle if that particular action is being done under the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Re: Priests ordaining Deacons, Teachers, Priests

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:38 pm
by daniel.scheer31@gmail.com
Correct, I have reviewed the Handbook section thoroughly and it still leaves the window open for some interpretation. The issue really becomes a matter of syntax, is it the "I ordain you" or the " we ordain you" question. If the group is ordaining (which seams odd to me) then I can see the authority being used as Aaronic. If it is the individual acting as voice, then I see the "I ordain" you as a matter resulting in the authority being stated as that which the individual holds.

Still searching, still looking.....

Thank you for your insight and thoughts.

Re: Priests ordaining Deacons, Teachers, Priests

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:38 pm
by scgallafent
Here are a few thoughts:

The bishop is the president of the Aaronic Priesthood in a ward (Handbook 2, 8.3.1). He authorizes and he or someone under his direction performs Aaronic Priesthood ordinations (Handbook 2, 20.7.1). The stake president is the president of the Melchizedek Priesthood in a stake (Handbook 2, 7.2.1). He authorizes and he or someone under his direction performs Melchizedek Priesthood ordinations (Handbook 2, 20.7.1).

Those participating in an ordination must hold appropriate priesthood office. For example, only high priests may participate when someone is being ordained a high priest. (Handbook 2, 20.7.1) Or, stated another way, everyone participating in the ordination must be a high priest when ordaining a high priest. My interpretation of that is that the priesthood office of everyone participating in the ordinance is relevant and that "we" are performing the ordination. If a priest is participating, he only has Aaronic Priesthood authority to exercise.

Final thought: I am a software developer in Church IT, not the presiding authority for these ordinances. This question is best answered by the presiding authority (the bishop in this case). If he is unsure, he can counsel with his stake president. If the stake president is unsure, he can counsel with an area or general authority to determine the answer to the question.

Re: Priests ordaining Deacons, Teachers, Priests

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:23 pm
by lajackson
"By the authority of the Melchizedek and the Aaronic Priesthood, we . . ." is the way I heard it done once. I do not believe there is anything in the Handbook about terminology.

Re: Priests ordaining Deacons, Teachers, Priests

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:31 am
by mrallen1
A priest can ordain other priests using his aaronic priesthood. if a melchizedek priesthood holder ordains a priest he is technically using the aaronic priesthood. if a priest is in the circle, he could say "by the authority of the priesthood". Remember, John the Baptist said this when he ordained Joseph Smith: Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron...

Re: Priests ordaining Deacons, Teachers, Priests

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:59 am
by twetwink
A Melchizedek Priesthood holds also the Aaronic priesthood, so i think he can use I or we.....

Re: Priests ordaining Deacons, Teachers, Priests

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:00 pm
by sbradshaw
twetwink wrote:A Melchizedek Priesthood holds also the Aaronic priesthood, so i think he can use I or we.....

It's usually true that the Aaronic Priesthood is conferred before the Melchizedek Priesthood, but that's not always the case (for example, recent converts might be directly ordained an elder). Someone who holds an office in the Melchizedek Priesthood has the authority to act in the offices of Deacon, Teacher, and Priest, because of his Melchizedek Priesthood office, not because he may (or may not) have been ordained to an office in the Aaronic Priesthood.

Re: Priests ordaining Deacons, Teachers, Priests

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:35 pm
by scgallafent
sbradshaw wrote:... recent converts might be directly ordained an elder...

Recent converts who are male and old enough to receive the priesthood should be ordained to an appropriate office in the Aaronic Priesthood shortly after confirmation. Under normal circumstances, they would not be ordained an elder without having first received the Aaronic Priesthood.

Here are the last two paragraphs from Handbook 2, 5.2.2:
[The bishop and his counselors] ensure that brethren who are at least age 11 and turning 12 during the year are ordained to the appropriate Aaronic Priesthood office soon after their confirmation, normally within a week. They also see that these brethren receive opportunities to exercise the priesthood. Brethren who are worthy to be baptized and confirmed are also worthy to receive the Aaronic Priesthood.

The bishop and his counselors oversee the work of the elders quorum president in helping brethren ages 18 and older prepare to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood. Recently baptized brethren ages 18 and older are ordained elders after they have served as priests, developed sufficient understanding of the gospel, and demonstrated their worthiness. No specific time as a member is required.

Re: Priests ordaining Deacons, Teachers, Priests

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:04 pm
by russellhltn
scgallafent wrote:Here are the last two paragraphs from Handbook 2, 5.2.2:


Thanks for finding that. I was looking at 7.6.2:
"Prospective elders should be ordained as soon as they are reasonably prepared, without unnecessary waiting periods."

Without the passage specifically addressing converts, that could be reasonably interpreted as allowing a "prepared" convert to become an Elder right away.