Transfer money from Budget to "other"

Discuss questions around local unit policies for budgeting, reconciling, etc. This forum should not contain specific financial or membership information.
Gary_Miller
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Re: Transfer money from Budget to "other"

Postby Gary_Miller » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:18 am

aebrown wrote:I don't follow the logic. First of all, Deacons and Beehives don't normally participate in youth conferences, and second of all, I can't imagine any policy that magically turns a camp into a youth conference. It's not clear from the original post that the slash between "Deacons" and "Beehives" means "and" -- it could just as easily mean "or". But even if it is a single camp involving both deacons and Beehives, I don't see why that couldn't be a camp that falls under the "one annual camp" policy that allows funding from Other when Budget funds are insufficient.

Using the logic that the funding policy specifically separates YM and YW camps (HB2 13.2.8). As well as the use of the words "do not usually participate in youth conferences" in HB2 13.6.14, Participation of Youth under 14 Years of Age. As well as dannykos use of words in post #29 "Deacons/Beehives camp" in which camp is a singular term, implies that there was one combined (COED) camp which would constitute as a Youth Conference for the 12 - 13 year olds, separate from the 14 - 18 youth conference.

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aebrown
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Re: Transfer money from Budget to "other"

Postby aebrown » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:58 am

That argument still makes no sense to me, but we'll just have to wait to hear a reply from dannykos to resolve the ambiguities.

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Re: Transfer money from Budget to "other"

Postby milleju » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:59 am

aebrown wrote:Now it's very clear in all the documentation for the "Other" account that there is no requirement or even expectation that the money contributed for that specific purpose will completely cover the cost of the event. So it is common and completely correct to spend all of the money available in the "Other" account that was paid for the specific purpose, and the remainder of the cost comes from Budget.


Can you provide the source location for the documentation you reference for the "Other" account so I can reference in the future? Thanks!

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Re: Transfer money from Budget to "other"

Postby eblood66 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:19 pm

milleju wrote:
aebrown wrote:Now it's very clear in all the documentation for the "Other" account that there is no requirement or even expectation that the money contributed for that specific purpose will completely cover the cost of the event. So it is common and completely correct to spend all of the money available in the "Other" account that was paid for the specific purpose, and the remainder of the cost comes from Budget.


Can you provide the source location for the documentation you reference for the "Other" account so I can reference in the future? Thanks!

Go to the RKATS site, login and then search for 'the other category'. The first search result (with the title 'The "Other" Category') covers many of the principles and practices related to the 'Other' category. You can also just follow this link: https://www.lds.org/callings/melchizede ... y?lang=eng

jasonfitt
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Re: Transfer money from Budget to "other"

Postby jasonfitt » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:59 pm

It would really be nice to be able to transfer funds from "Other" to "Budget" and vice versa like the good old days. For instance, we had too much sitting in the "Other" categories that had been sitting there for over a year, and the auditor suggested we do something with it. Reimbursement requests and other expenses from those "Other" categories just weren't coming in fast enough. So, we had to write ourselves a check, and deposit it as a donation in to the various budgets. I guess I could have gone in to the donation batches (there were several that were processed over a year before), but decided to do the check thing.

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Re: Transfer money from Budget to "other"

Postby russellhltn » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:12 pm

jasonfitt wrote:It would really be nice to be able to transfer funds from "Other" to "Budget" and vice versa like the good old days.


I'm pretty sure that's deliberate. Note that by policy you can't just convert left over funds in "other" to add to your budget. Any remainder that can't be refunded should have been sent to the Corporation of the President.

I don't see as carrying a balance in "Other" category is a problem as long as the individual sub-accounts that represent specific activities are closed in a reasonable length of time after the event.
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Gary_Miller
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Re: Transfer money from Budget to "other"

Postby Gary_Miller » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:57 pm

jasonfitt wrote:It would really be nice to be able to transfer funds from "Other" to "Budget" and vice versa like the good old days. For instance, we had too much sitting in the "Other" categories that had been sitting there for over a year, and the auditor suggested we do something with it.

If this was the case then your unit is ether collecting to much from individual participant fees or to much from fund raisers. Or maybe you don't need to do ether because you have enough in the Budget to cover expenses.

jasonfitt wrote: Reimbursement requests and other expenses from those "Other" categories just weren't coming in fast enough.

Or not being taken out or the proper category in the first place.

jasonfitt wrote:So, we had to write ourselves a check, and deposit it as a donation in to the various budgets. I guess I could have gone in to the donation batches (there were several that were processed over a year before), but decided to do the check thing.

Which is against the Handbook of instructions, HB1 14.7.2. under General Principles and Guidelines.

The proper thing to do would have to 1) reimburse money back to the individuals since you did not need all the fund collected, or 2) Designate it for next years camps, or 3) Purchase some equipment need for YW and YM camps.

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Re: Transfer money from Budget to "other"

Postby Gary_Miller » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:02 pm

russellhltn wrote:I don't see as carrying a balance in "Other" category is a problem as long as the individual sub-accounts that represent specific activities are closed in a reasonable length of time after the event.

The audit sees it as a problem if the funds in the other category is not designated for a specific purpose and spent in a reasonable amount of time.

The whole principle is to use the Budget allowance for every thing including camps. However, the church realizes that the cost for camp can be more than the Budget allowance can handle so there are some exceptions for long term camps and camp equipment.

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Re: Transfer money from Budget to "other"

Postby Gary_Miller » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:14 pm

milleju wrote:
aebrown wrote:Now it's very clear in all the documentation for the "Other" account that there is no requirement or even expectation that the money contributed for that specific purpose will completely cover the cost of the event. So it is common and completely correct to spend all of the money available in the "Other" account that was paid for the specific purpose, and the remainder of the cost comes from Budget.


Can you provide the source location for the documentation you reference for the "Other" account so I can reference in the future? Thanks!

The source is the guidelines for Funding Activities that you can fund part of the camp from the budget allowance and part for the money collected for that specific camp and placed in the other category.

HB2 13.2.8 Funding for Activities
......
Stake and ward budget funds should be used to pay for all activities, programs, and supplies. Members should not pay fees to participate. Nor should they provide materials, supplies, rental or admission fees, or long-distance transportation at their own expense. Activities in which members provide food may be held if doing so does not place undue burdens on them.

Possible exceptions to the funding policy in the preceding paragraph are listed below. If the ward budget does not have sufficient funds to pay for the following activities, leaders may ask participants to pay for part or all of them:

1. One annual extended Scout camp or similar activity for young men.
2. One annual young women camp or similar activity.
3. One annual day camp or similar activity for Primary children ages 8 through 11.
4. Optional activities as outlined in 13.5.

If funds from participants are not sufficient, the bishop may authorize one group fund-raising activity annually that complies with the guidelines in 13.6.8.

13.6.8 Fund-Raising Activities

Fund-raising activities are not usually approved because expenses for stake and ward activities are paid with budget funds. As an exception, a stake president or bishop may authorize one group fund-raising activity each year. Such an activity may be held to raise funds for the following purposes only:

1. To help pay the cost of one annual camp or similar activity as outlined in 13.2.8.
2. To help purchase equipment that the unit needs for annual camps as outlined in 13.2.9.

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Re: Transfer money from Budget to "other"

Postby russellhltn » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:01 pm

Gary_Miller wrote:
russellhltn wrote:I don't see as carrying a balance in "Other" category is a problem as long as the individual sub-accounts that represent specific activities are closed in a reasonable length of time after the event.

The audit sees it as a problem if the funds in the other category is not designated for a specific purpose and spent in a reasonable amount of time.

Agreed. But I think some people see a balance in "other" and immediately assume there's a problem. I'm saying that the parent category of "other" could carry a balance for years and not be a problem as long as all the sub-accounts are compliant.



Gary_Miller wrote:The whole principle is to use the Budget allowance for every thing including camps.

I understand what you are saying, but in the context of this thread, it might be misunderstood.

I'm saying that to keep one's books clean, all funds collected should go into a specific "other" sub-account. Between transfers from budget and expenses charged to the "other" sub-account, the account is brought back to zero. If that's done then it's easy to see that all funds raised went toward the event. But if there's ever a transfer from "other" to budget, then the scope of inquiry has to expand to see if the expenses paid from budget for the event covers the transfer. If it does not, then not ALL of the fund-raising went into the event - some ended up enlarging someone's budget.

By all means, use as much budget to fund the activity as possible. But if one runs all the funding though the budget account, then you can end up with less-than-transparent bookkeeping.
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