Payment Request menu in LCR Finance

Discuss questions around local unit policies for budgeting, reconciling, etc. This forum should not contain specific financial or membership information.
chriswoodut
Member
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:42 am
Location: Utah

Re: Payment Request menu in LCR Finance

Postby chriswoodut » Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:32 am

My question comes around the Bishop's approval. Note that the Bishop has an "acknowledgement" step in the process AFTER it is approved by the clerk and counselor (or 2 counselors). That step is not an approval because the payments go out after the clerk/counselor approvals but before the Bishop's acknowledgement (e.g. the electronic version of signing the old report that listed the checks that were written).

I haven't tried this new system yet. I'm guessing it is still assuming the Bishop's approval happened, verbally or otherwise, before the person purchased the items. Our current process is that I, as a clerk, send an email with a reimbursement request (with details and receipts) to the bishop before I start the process in LCR. I see another poster has the Bishop approve instead of the counselor to solve this problem.

drepouille
Senior Member
Posts: 2296
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:06 pm
Location: Plattsmouth, NE
Contact:

Re: Payment Request menu in LCR Finance

Postby drepouille » Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:40 am

I agree. My stake leaders have told me that while we do not need to use a Reimbursement Request Form as such, we need to capture an email that contains the same information, including the bishop's approval before we create the expense item in LCR. I print the email chain to a PDF, and attach it to the expense item. I would prefer that the bishop sign in to LCR and approve the expense before the EFT is issued.
Dana Repouille, Plattsmouth, Nebraska

BrianEdwards
Member
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: Payment Request menu in LCR Finance

Postby BrianEdwards » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:04 pm

If I'm following this thread correctly, there's still some muddied waters regarding what exactly this "Prior Approval" of the Bishop actually entails ("Expenses must be approved by the stake president or bishop before they are incurred"). My understanding is that a Bishop approves an organization's budget at the beginning (hopefully before) of the calendar year, and this constitutes the pre-approval for most normal expenses. After that, each organization has discretion as to how to spend their money, and individual organization expenses are not required to have an additional approval from the Bishop prior to incurring that particular expense. The Bishop reviews organization expenses (post-expense-approval), and will address any concerns with the organization president.

If the Bishop is supposed to be aware of each individual expense before it is incurred, approving either verbally or in writing, that's quite different. I know I'm hijacking the thread from the OP, sorry... :roll:

eblood66
Senior Member
Posts: 3363
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:17 am
Location: Cumming, GA, USA

Re: Payment Request menu in LCR Finance

Postby eblood66 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:42 pm

Section 34.6.7 of the Handbook says

Although counselors may be authorized to sign checks, they should not do so unless the stake president or bishop has approved the expenditure.


And Section 34.7.1 says

No stake or ward expenses may be incurred or paid without the presiding officer’s authorization.


As far as I know those are the relevant statements in the handbook. I don't have access to the audit question so I can't say exactly how it's worded. The bishop and stake president (in connection with the audit committee and area auditor) are responsible to fill in any details that are not clear based on those statements.

But I've always worked under the interpretation that each individual expense must be explicitly approved by the bishop before it is paid. I've never been in a ward where the the bishop has approved each purchase made by a member for an activity before the member made the purchase and then submitted the reimbursement. But the bishop always either signs the reimbursement request, signs the check (or approves the EFT) or gives his verbal/email approval to the check signers or EFT approvers. And, of course, organization are expected to stay within their budget as approved by the bishop.

chriswoodut
Member
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:42 am
Location: Utah

Re: Payment Request menu in LCR Finance

Postby chriswoodut » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:53 pm

BrianEdwards wrote:If I'm following this thread correctly, there's still some muddied waters regarding what exactly this "Prior Approval" of the Bishop actually entails ("Expenses must be approved by the stake president or bishop before they are incurred"). My understanding is that a Bishop approves an organization's budget at the beginning (hopefully before) of the calendar year, and this constitutes the pre-approval for most normal expenses. After that, each organization has discretion as to how to spend their money, and individual organization expenses are not required to have an additional approval from the Bishop prior to incurring that particular expense. The Bishop reviews organization expenses (post-expense-approval), and will address any concerns with the organization president.

If the Bishop is supposed to be aware of each individual expense before it is incurred, approving either verbally or in writing, that's quite different. I know I'm hijacking the thread from the OP, sorry... :roll:


I asked our auditor about this yesterday. He says he is aware some bishop's use the "I approved the budget" approach, but he said that doesn't really meet the intent of the question.

BrianEdwards
Member
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: Payment Request menu in LCR Finance

Postby BrianEdwards » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:10 pm

eblood66 wrote:Although counselors may be authorized to sign checks, they should not do so unless the stake president or bishop has approved the expenditure

Understood. I believe my and others' interpretation is that "approving the expenditure" is not specifically approving beforehand that the RS will be buying two plastic tablecloths at the dollar store for their upcoming activity. But rather, approving that the RS will be having 4 evening activities this year, and that expenses incurred as a part of those activities are all approved. So buying the plastic tablecloths is an approved expenditure, because it's for an approved activity, and part of an approved budget.

But I ask because while this may make sense to me, if we really are not aligned with the intent, then I'd like us to change and make better efforts to do just that. I empathize with those who try and produce a clearly-worded handbook that ends up being nit-picked to death...

drepouille
Senior Member
Posts: 2296
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:06 pm
Location: Plattsmouth, NE
Contact:

Re: Payment Request menu in LCR Finance

Postby drepouille » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:55 pm

I am looking at an audit PDF from January 2014. It specified several ways to determine if the bishop approved the payment. Granted, the new electronic review and approval process makes a physical signature OBE.
Did the bishop approve all payments?
• Look at the payment records. Make sure the bishop has approved the payments by signing at least one of the
following: original invoice, original bill, original receipt, or payment request form. The bishop’s signature on the MLS
Expense Report is acceptable proof of his approval.
• The bishop may approve automatic charges by signing a printed copy of the IROP. The bishop’s signature on the
Unit Financial Statement, along with his verbal confirmation to the auditor that he authorized the automatic charge, is
also acceptable proof of his approval.
Dana Repouille, Plattsmouth, Nebraska

allenjpl
Member
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:26 am
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA

Re: Payment Request menu in LCR Finance

Postby allenjpl » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:07 pm

drepouille wrote:I am looking at an audit PDF from January 2014. It specified several ways to determine if the bishop approved the payment. Granted, the new electronic review and approval process makes a physical signature OBE.
Did the bishop approve all payments?
• Look at the payment records. Make sure the bishop has approved the payments by signing at least one of the
following: original invoice, original bill, original receipt, or payment request form. The bishop’s signature on the MLS
Expense Report is acceptable proof of his approval.
• The bishop may approve automatic charges by signing a printed copy of the IROP. The bishop’s signature on the
Unit Financial Statement, along with his verbal confirmation to the auditor that he authorized the automatic charge, is
also acceptable proof of his approval.


Audit Question 9 is currently "Did the Bishop review and authorize the payment?"

The auditor is directed to review the payment records, which includes digital records.

If the Bishop signs the check, LUFAS identifies his signature and pre-answers the question Yes.
If the Bishop reviewed the transaction at some point using the electronic review process, the question is pre-answered Yes.


Return to “Local Unit Finance”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest