temple (specific) Donations

Discuss questions around local unit policies for budgeting, reconciling, etc. This forum should not contain specific financial or membership information.
russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:40 pm

elderlarryhawkes wrote:May I suggest that not only does the programming code need to be as correct as possible when released, all documentation needs to be updated to exactly match the new policies and procedures as well.;)


In this case, the "documentation" has been created by the community, to help the community. It may lag behind the deployment of new features. When updating, it's not easy to catch all the places it needs to be changed in the wiki. So we really depend on users to point out what slips though.

Because of all the changes made as a result of CUBS, I'd pay careful attention to the "edited by" dates.
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elderlarryhawkes-p40
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Postby elderlarryhawkes-p40 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:53 pm

RussellHltn wrote:In this case, the "documentation" has been created by the community, to help the community. It may lag behind the deployment of new features. When updating, it's not easy to catch all the places it needs to be changed in the wiki. So we really depend on users to point out what slips though.

Because of all the changes made as a result of CUBS, I'd pay careful attention to the "edited by" dates.


Thanks for the input Russell.:)
So who goes back and updates the community documentation and is there a more specific procedure to notify the right person when documentation needs to be updated? Will the documentation I pointed out in this thread get updated now with no further action or does some other process need to take place to get it updated?:confused:

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:30 pm

elderlarryhawkes wrote:Thanks for the input Russell.:)
So who goes back and updates the community documentation and is there a more specific procedure to notify the right person when documentation needs to be updated? Will the documentation I pointed out in this thread get updated now with no further action or does some other process need to take place to get it updated?:confused:


I guess you're new to the concept of community documentation. The community is YOU (and me, and everyone else). So when you notice some community-built documentation is out of date, the best course of action is to fix it yourself. You have as much responsibility to fix it as anyone else does. Barring that, the second-best course is to report it to someone, which you have done. But there is no automatic fix.
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Postby aebrown » Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:51 pm

Alan_Brown wrote:You have as much responsibility to fix it as anyone else does. Barring that, the second-best course is to report it to someone, which you have done. But there is no automatic fix.


I have updated the Donation categories wiki article, but I know there are many others that still need to be updated.
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Postby russellhltn » Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:32 pm

Alan_Brown wrote:I guess you're new to the concept of community documentation.


Or more specific, the idea of a Wiki. You'll find that if you log in with your LDS Account, you can edit the content yourself.

Likewise others can correct your edits until it's something everyone agrees with. I know, it sounds like a recipe for chaos, but it works surprisingly well.

While I think we'd all love it if the developers would take on the task of full and complete documentation, that's not what's been happening. For whatever reason, (most likely putting the resources available where only they can do the work) it's just not the way things work - and it's been that way for quite some time.

The community documentation came about because it's better and more efficient to write complete articles and point people to that then to write the same quick reply to the 10 different people with the same problem in the forums.

And the community itself exists because we find we know more about our job by plugging into the collective then we would if we tried to go it alone. And that's true for even the most knowable of us.
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elderlarryhawkes-p40
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Postby elderlarryhawkes-p40 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:46 pm

Alan_Brown wrote:I guess you're new to the concept of community documentation. The community is YOU (and me, and everyone else). So when you notice some community-built documentation is out of date, the best course of action is to fix it yourself. You have as much responsibility to fix it as anyone else does. Barring that, the second-best course is to report it to someone, which you have done. But there is no automatic fix.


Well, I'm not very experienced with editing this type of HTML formatted text,;) but I gave it a shot and added a bit of additional info to help make the Donation categories Temple (specific) area a little more up to date.:cool:

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:18 pm

elderlarryhawkes wrote:Well, I'm not very experienced with editing this type of HTML formatted text,;) but I gave it a shot and added a bit of additional info to help make the Donation categories Temple (specific) area a little more up to date.:cool:


The change you made indicates that Temple (specific) donations are not charitable. That should definitely not be the case. I know that you said that this was your experience in the first post of this thread, but if that is the case, then it is an issue that should be fixed. I made a note of this in the wiki article, and made sure that such donations were listed as charitable.

I work at the stake level, so I have not seen such donations myself, but there are two issues here:

  1. Going forward, there is no "Temple (specific)" category. That's fine; as directed by the CUBS documentation, members should now make all donations for temple construction to the "Temple Construction" category. Such donations will be considered by MLS to be charitable donations, as they should be.
  2. Existing donations for "Temple (specific)" made prior to the CUBS conversion seem to have been recategorized in a way that makes them appear as non-charitable donations. I have not verified this myself, but if it is the case, then there are two possible fixes:
    • the MLS developers develop a patch (either to the software or to the MLS data) that will make sure those donations are moved to Temple Construction or some other charitable category; or
    • financial clerks that have such donations up through 17 Oct 2010 find them all and change them to be in a charitable category.
I don't know if the first possible fix is in the works, but someone should find out if it is the case; if not, all financial clerks should do the second fix (if they have such donations).
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Postby rwoodmansee » Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:26 am

I checked with one of our units using MLS 3.2.4 and they ran a YTD Summary and a Official Tax Statement (US), both show that the Temple Construction donations are listed as a charitable donation for donations made before and after the CUBS conversion.

On the question of temple specific donations. The 'Other:Temple Specific' category may have been eliminated but I don't know that this means that they are not allowed. CHI Book 1 ref 14.4.5 "If members want to designate the donation for a specific temple, they may note this on the form." It sounds like temple specific donations are allowed but the donation is still processed through the Temple Construction Fund without the specific temple being identified in MLS.

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Postby elderlarryhawkes-p40 » Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:44 pm

Alan_Brown wrote:The change you made indicates that Temple (specific) donations are not charitable. That should definitely not be the case. I know that you said that this was your experience in the first post of this thread, but if that is the case, then it is an issue that should be fixed. I made a note of this in the wiki article, and made sure that such donations were listed as charitable.

I work at the stake level, so I have not seen such donations myself, but there are two issues here:

  1. Going forward, there is no "Temple (specific)" category. That's fine; as directed by the CUBS documentation, members should now make all donations for temple construction to the "Temple Construction" category. Such donations will be considered by MLS to be charitable donations, as they should be.
  2. Existing donations for "Temple (specific)" made prior to the CUBS conversion seem to have been recategorized in a way that makes them appear as non-charitable donations. I have not verified this myself, but if it is the case, then there are two possible fixes:
    • the MLS developers develop a patch (either to the software or to the MLS data) that will make sure those donations are moved to Temple Construction or some other charitable category; or
    • financial clerks that have such donations up through 17 Oct 2010 find them all and change them to be in a charitable category.
I don't know if the first possible fix is in the works, but someone should find out if it is the case; if not, all financial clerks should do the second fix (if they have such donations).

GregAnderson wrote:It is my understanding that Temple Specific donations aren't allowed anymore. I realize you might be talking about old donations (when that was allowed). You may have to go back to the donation record and change the donation to the general "Temple Construction" fund instead of Temple Specific. But then you have to worry about a negative balance because you probably already sent a check to HQ in order to make the "transfer" of the Temple Specific money. Hmmm. A puzzle.


Alan,
In thinking about your second option to item 2 above, Greg brought up a good thought in having to consider the effects of doing that since we have already sent a check to HQ, and creating a possible negative balance. Can you shed any light or your thoughts on what would really happen by doing that.

Or is this situation one that we need to contact church HQ to get an offical clarification of how to proceed. If so, what would be the most efficient way to contact HQ for this matter?

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:08 pm

elderlarryhawkes wrote:In thinking about your second option to item 2 above, Greg brought up a good thought in having to consider the effects of doing that since we have already sent a check to HQ, and creating a possible negative balance. Can you shed any light or your thoughts on what would really happen by doing that.

Or is this situation one that we need to contact church HQ to get an offical clarification of how to proceed. If so, what would be the most efficient way to contact HQ for this matter?


It is certainly possible that recategorizing a donation from a category that was not automatically swept (Temple specific) to one that is automatically swept (Temple Construction) could cause a negative balance. I guess I haven't heard enough details yet as to what the donations made to Temple (Specific) prior to October 17 look like now, so it's tough for me to make a good recommendation.

I do think it's good to contact Local Unit Support for this issue, which you can do by any of the means listed in the linked wiki article. You will probably get a reply to an email or MLS message within 2-3 days. You can get through by phone these days with patience and a bit of luck, and by choosing times that aren't as busy (probably not a Monday, and not in the evenings, although clearly some people do get through any day and any time they are open).

Oh, and please report back what you hear from Local Unit Support.
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