Page 1 of 2

Child of record that never gets baptized

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:08 am
by jasonfitt
I received a question from a member, and I'm not sure of the answer. The member wants to know what happens to the record of a child of record once they turn 18 and are not baptized. Do their records remain on the system in MLS, or do they "drop off" our records?

Re: Child of record that never gets baptized

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:38 am
by aebrown
jasonfitt wrote:I received a question from a member, and I'm not sure of the answer. The member wants to know what happens to the record of a child of record once they turn 18 and are not baptized. Do their records remain on the system in MLS, or do they "drop off" our records?

Handbook 1, Section 13.6.2 has the answer. Basically, such records do not automatically "drop off" our records (for most purposes such records stop being counted once an unbaptized member turns 9). Removing such records requires action, and if no action is taken, the records remain with the local ward indefinitely.

But according to policy, the bishop should take action. He determines if they have declined the opportunity to be baptized and then (with stake president approval) instructs the clerk to cancel the membership record. Then the record will be removed from MLS and all other systems visible to the local units.

Re: Child of record that never gets baptized

Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:58 am
by kenneth83
But according to policy, the bishop should take action. He determines if they have declined the opportunity to be baptized and then (with stake president approval) instructs the clerk to cancel the membership record. Then the record will be removed from MLS and all other systems visible to the local units.


Could you please site the policy?

Re: Child of record that never gets baptized

Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:02 pm
by russellhltn
kenneth83 wrote:Could you please site the policy?


Handbook 1: 13.6.2. It's a restricted document, so it can't be quoted here.

Re: Child of record that never gets baptized

Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:16 pm
by bgant
If a person older than 9 and is not baptized is not considered a member of record but remains on the rolls, how does the membership clerk determine when he is adding up who attended which classes which ones are members of records and which ones are not?

Re: Child of record that never gets baptized

Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:50 pm
by jdlessley
bgant wrote:If a person older than 9 and is not baptized is not considered a member of record but remains on the rolls, how does the membership clerk determine when he is adding up who attended which classes which ones are members of records and which ones are not?

A membership clerk can check to see if the child has a membership record in MLS. He should make sure the record is not a temporary record. If a child is over 9, not baptized, and appearing on rolls then it is likely there is a temporary record for that child.

Re: Child of record that never gets baptized

Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:13 pm
by russellhltn
I think the question is when dealing with the stats - if child of record is over 9, then they don't count for the stats. But how is the person doing the counting supposed to know that? I think that's a fair question. Right there with non-members who have been added to the class roll.

Now, there is a number in the quarterly reports that says how many are being counted, but as a practical matter, I would image that most clerks and secretaries assume they are in sync and simply look for the number who haven't attended during the quarter and report that number.

Re: Child of record that never gets baptized

Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:23 pm
by eblood66
russellhltn wrote:I think the question is when dealing with the stats - if child of record is over 9, then they don't count for the stats. But how is the person doing the counting supposed to know that? I think that's a fair question. Right there with non-members who have been added to the class roll.

I think that out-of-unit members may also be an issue.

russellhltn wrote:Now, there is a number in the quarterly reports that says how many are being counted, but as a practical matter, I would image that most clerks and secretaries assume they are in sync and simply look for the number who haven't attended during the quarter and report that number.

It used to be that you could click on the appropriate 'total' number in the quarterly report in MLS and it would generate a list of the members that were included in that count. But I think that has been removed from MLS since I was released as a clerk but it may have been added to the Clerk Resources version. If so, then those reports can be compared against the rolls in order to determine who to count.

As a clerk I would do that when I wasn't sure but most of the time I knew without looking all the temporary records and all of the unbaptized records. We never had very many. The thing I often had to check was whether an 18 year old YW as showing up in YW or Relief Society and to verify which of the men on the priesthood rolls were prospective elders.

Re: Child of record that never gets baptized

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:01 am
by bluefish
OK, so, the individual turns 18, the bishop contacts them, and the individual confirms that they do not wish to remain on church records...

I have a situation in my stake that has progressed through the process this far and the next step you say is for the Ward Clerk to cancel the record - but in our case the Ward Clerk for the unit is not able to find a way to take action on the individuals record. I believe the person shows up in black font, rather than blue - such that if he clicks the name, nothing happens.

Is he approaching the task from the wrong direction?

Shawn
(fairly new) Stake Clerk

Re: Child of record that never gets baptized

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:27 am
by eblood66
bluefish wrote:OK, so, the individual turns 18, the bishop contacts them, and the individual confirms that they do not wish to remain on church records...

I have a situation in my stake that has progressed through the process this far and the next step you say is for the Ward Clerk to cancel the record - but in our case the Ward Clerk for the unit is not able to find a way to take action on the individuals record. I believe the person shows up in black font, rather than blue - such that if he clicks the name, nothing happens.

Is he approaching the task from the wrong direction?

Shawn
(fairly new) Stake Clerk

It sounds like they aren't looking in the right place. If the person has a membership record they should be listed when using the Membership > Individual Record. Or since they want to cancel the record they can just use Membership > Records > Cancel Record from the menu and it should be listed. If it is, then they can just select the person and complete the process.

However, it sounds like they are probably looking at the parent's record under Children. If that's the case and they don't show up under Membership > Individual Record then the ward doesn't actually have the person's membership record. If the son shows a membership record on the Children tab of his parent and he lives in the ward, then the clerk needs to request his record first before it can be cancelled. If the son doesn't actually live in the ward then the clerk needs to contact the bishop of the ward where the son resides and that ward needs to be the one to take care of this.