Windows 10 Upgrade

Discussions around the setup, operation, replacement, and disposal of clerk computers, not to include using MLS
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jkentner
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Re: Windows 10 Upgrade

Postby jkentner » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:07 pm

russellhltn wrote:It's not an isolated opinion, or even a new one.
I brought ChromeOS into the conversation to say that perhaps "they" will decide to move away from Windows. If MLS is discontinued for local use, then all that's needed is a web box that can do OpenOffice/LibreOffice. You don't need Windows for that. Both ChromeOS and Android have been growing in that area. ChromeOS in particular has some offerings by "Tier 1" level suppliers.

I'm guessing you didn't even actively use Windows 8/8.1 in a business environment. Most of our users in our building do not use OpenOffice/LibreOffice because it is not very useable. Especially when they start a formatted document in Office at home and bring it to the church to print. Does Google use ChromeOS for their corporate machines? What other companies have deployed it in a managed Enterprise environment?
russellhltn wrote:OK, so why do you still have XP machines in the FHC?

Exactly my point! They say an upgrade disk is sent, you never get it, you call again, wash, rinse, repeat.
russellhltn wrote:From Meetinghouse Technology Roles and Responsibilities: STAKE TECHNOLOGY SPECIALIST (STS)

"4.7 Coordinates with FM through PFR to ensure meetinghouses have approved and working technology equipment

"4.10 Maintains inventory of meetinghouse technology hardware and software including date of acquisition, warranty, and licensing information"

Sorry, while it's not solely the STS's fault, there's some to go around. Earlier versions made it clear he was to provide input on the 4th year to get it budgeted. It would certainly be in the stake's self-interest to make sure it's on FM's radar.

Regardless, if your stake still has XP machines, it's a local issue, not a result of CHQ policy.

FM are church employees, managed by CHQ. There is also a discrepancy in the policy. We both have links showing two different owners of the inventory. Again, CHQ issue. Also our STS have sent many messages to FM about machines with XP, again not a local issue.

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Re: Windows 10 Upgrade

Postby russellhltn » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:50 pm

jkentner wrote:I'm guessing you didn't even actively use Windows 8/8.1 in a business environment.

I work for a decent size IT firm. So I walked down to my friend at the help desk and she confrimed my suspition - very few business clients went to Win8. In fact many did the downgrade option to stick to Win7 on new machines.


jkentner wrote:Most of our users in our building do not use OpenOffice/LibreOffice because it is not very useable.

OpenOffice/LibreOffice is the church recommended solution for local units. So the inability to run MS Office may not rank high on the priorty list (if at all).


jkentner wrote:Does Google use ChromeOS for their corporate machines? What other companies have deployed it in a managed Enterprise environment?

If you want to go that route, few have installed Win8/8.1, much less Win10. Sorry, point, my side. 10 will not roll out in the corporate environment until all their apps "certify" 10. And they may not roll out until the machines are replaced.

But long time ago, the church did look at buying computers without Windows and using Linux. It's possible that was one of the reasons that MLS was written in Java is so it wasn't tied to the OS and could be ported as needed. Ultimately it appears that one of the reasons the church didn't go that route is they couldn't get "Tier 1" machines without paying for a Windows license. So there was no cost savings. It's just the way MS had it's licensing set up. (You can find the document if you do some hunting in the MS anti-trust lawsuit.) But the fact they looked suggests they're not against the idea of not using Windows for local units. With MLS rapidly waning, I wouldn't be surprised but what it's at least considered.


jkentner wrote:
russellhltn wrote:OK, so why do you still have XP machines in the FHC?

Exactly my point! They say an upgrade disk is sent, you never get it, you call again, wash, rinse, repeat.

It used to be you had to have a order form and have the stake president sign it. If that procedure wasn't followed, that could be why the disk was never sent. Follow-up doesn't seem to be the systems strong suit. I had to call back when a promised email wasn't sent.

I wonder if a contributing factor is the process has been changed. It doesn't help that the FS Help Center has number of documents that come up "no article found" when you click on them. I can tell you that the church is changing to a new arrangement with the FHC computers. They send brand new computers and tell you to send back ALL the old ones. If the computer has XP on it, I doubt if it's that new. Right this moment, I'd discarding Core Duo FHC machines that already have 7 on them. So they may have halted upgrading existing machines, but the news may not have reached the service missionaries you talked to.



russellhltn wrote:again not a local issue.

You may disagree, but I'd call your local FM group a "local" issue. Different FM groups following different rules is the subject of a number of threads. I checked my email. My FM group was asking me about XP machines back in early February as they were given orders from above. So I have to think the problem is your local FM group, not CHQ.
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Re: Windows 10 Upgrade

Postby sbradshaw » Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:15 pm

I think "Windows 10 hater" is now justified. :)

While Chromebooks are a possibility, I expect we'll be on Windows 10 before they get the last of MLS online. But, who knows?

Because Windows 10 is free and more widely acclaimed from the beginning than Windows 8, and because the Church doesn't need to support enterprise software other than MLS, I don't see any reason the Church wouldn't upgrade; but I don't expect they'll do it until it's proven stable in the wild for several months.
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Re: Windows 10 Upgrade

Postby Mikerowaved » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:45 pm

sbradshaw wrote:...but I don't expect they'll do it until it's proven stable in the wild for several months.

Months? I predict it will be far longer than that. While I'm not against upgrading, I think the church's position is, "If it ain't broke...". Windows 7 has (so far) proven itself as a stable platform for MLS and the other software titles approved for clerk machines. IMO, the developers probably have more pressing matters on their collective plates than to bother with this right now. Eventually, I'm sure they will look at it in depth, but I seriously doubt that will be for quite some time.
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Re: Windows 10 Upgrade

Postby russellhltn » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:14 am

Security patch support for Windows 7 ends in January 2020. Hopefully they'll have everyone migrated by then.

At some point the newer computers may not have drivers for Windows 7. That's probably going to be the driving force getting this done. But that day may be a couple of years down the road.
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Re: Windows 10 Upgrade

Postby sbradshaw » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:38 pm

russellhltn wrote:I'm not aware of any "must have" features in Win 10.

I could see Cortana being helpful. "Cortana, print the Tithing Settlement Statements, please." :) Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Re: Windows 10 Upgrade

Postby russellhltn » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:20 pm

jkentner wrote:
russellhltn wrote:OK, so why do you still have XP machines in the FHC?

Exactly my point! They say an upgrade disk is sent, you never get it, you call again, wash, rinse, repeat.

I think I may have found the answer while looking for something else. If you go to your FHC machine (one that is current): Start > All Programs > FHC Support Tools > FHC_Application_Finder. It will bring up a list of things you can install in your center. One of them is "FHC OS Image v4 Downloader (10.7 GB)"
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dpenrod75
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Re: Windows 10 Upgrade

Postby dpenrod75 » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:48 am

FYI: MLS does an OS check when it loads and then throws an exception if the OS is not Win7 or XP. I suppose you could run the MLS executable in 'Window 7' Compatibility mode to satisfy the OS requirement. I can't imagine the church investing time upgrading MLS and giving the thumbs up for Win 10 since MLS is going away.

On another note, just got a new clerk computer from our FM group and they are issuing 'tiny desktops' now with Win7 of course. These integrated type form factors have no dvd drives or bays or pci slots and just enough usbs to plugin the mouse, keyboard and maybe a couple of external devices. Total weight is about 3 lbs. They have Wi-Fi, but might as well plug the thing in for the sake of speed. Whooo hooo!

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Re: Windows 10 Upgrade

Postby johnshaw » Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:41 am

In my corporate experience, most companies will not upgrade to every operating system. Most followed the pattern Windows 95 --> Windows XP (skipping workstation 4) --> Windows 7 (skipping Vista) --> Windows 10 (skipping 8) There is a lot of time and effort involved in a migration like this and since IT usually is lean and mean from a body count perspective we try and limit those large-type events. It as actually pretty natural that most companies skipped Windows 8. My own global Healthcare IT company has at least a limited run of every OS - I've been running Win8.1 on a laptop/touchscreen for 2 years now. So there are logistics behind Windows OS updates.
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Re: Windows 10 Upgrade

Postby russellhltn » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:10 am

johnshaw wrote:Most followed the pattern Windows 95 --> Windows XP (skipping workstation 4) --> Windows 7 (skipping Vista) --> Windows 10 (skipping 8)

Add Windows 2000, and I'll agree with you.

Trolling my usual IT news sources yesterday, I ran across The Sixth Flag. If the pricing is aggressive, it looks like it could be disruptive. Windows desktop as a service - from a $250 ChromeBook/ChromeBox. That really does make the computer an appliance. The rest is in the cloud using standardized images.
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