Using Web Tools to Map the Members

Use this forum to discuss issues that are not found in any of the other clerk and stake technology specialist forums.
pwilson
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Postby pwilson » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:55 pm

You can also just use the native tools in Google Earth with a plus account and it will auto look up - up to 100 addresses at a time within the app itself. Just break up your ward list into csv of no more than 100 names. Once you get all of these looked up and mapped you can combine them into a single kmz file.

amc79
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Google Earth & Mapping Rural Areas

Postby amc79 » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:05 pm

We're using Google Earth in our ward. Though, we've noticed, it's not perfect at mapping addresses, especially in some of the rural areas within our ward boundaries--Google Earth doesn't know what to do with addresses like "Rural Route 5". We have a ward member called to keep the map up-to-date initially for emergency preparedness, but we're exploring other uses. He's had to manually mark a number of houses (probably about a third), but the end result has been quite helpful.

Just goes to show, we still need that "human element" to get the technology solution to work.

JamesAnderson
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Postby JamesAnderson » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:11 pm

In the US, they are very slowly converting over to road and street addresses, I did that alot at one job, fixed alot of the files as they called in and said they changed to this from that.

A solution is to note the name of the road they are on, and then work down that road until you find the house they are in especially if they are far from a crossroad. Best to have street name and nearest crossroad for extrapolating where they are.

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ihenpecked
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Postby ihenpecked » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:16 am

RussellHltn wrote:Thanks for the reply. I wanted to check but didn't have the time to research.

Thanks again.

Ronald and or Tom,
The fine print on the batchgeocode Web site looks something like this:
When bulk geocoding is taking place the end-user browser interacts directly with Yahoo! servers allowing the 5,000 query per day limit to be extended to the end-user IP address.
Just to make sure: No ward info goes to outside servers?
A. This works like a charm with Google Earth it appears. How big of a CSV file will it take? It seemed to not like all of our large membership.
B. Tom: Is this still kosher with church guidance for third-party apps?
Mike

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WelchTC
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Postby WelchTC » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:59 am

If only address information is being submitted through some sort of WebAPI and information is returned in order to pinpoint the address on a map, I would assume that would be fine. If, on the other hand that the data was being collected by Yahoo or Google or some other 3rd party it would be a problem.

Tom

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ihenpecked
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Postby ihenpecked » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:12 am

ronald_schoedel wrote:There is no uploading to Google involved in this at all. Google Earth is NOT the same thing as Google Maps. Google Earth is a local application that allows you to use network mapping resources with local data. So, the data files are only ever stored on your local machines, and in fact you could even email the .kmz file (or maybe .kml...I forget) to the bishop and his counselors, or the assistant clerks, etc. and it is all self-contained in that file. There is no uploading to anyone, anywhere, in the process I mentioned.

Even the batchgeocode.com website that I suggested does everything clientside in Javascript, on your local machine.

I am certain this is no less secure than hard copies of ward rosters that are handed out in thousands of wards, all the time.

Hope this helps.

Ronald Schoedel

Ronald
This works like a breeze. I was wondering about the following from the batchgeocode Web site: "When bulk geocoding is taking place the end-user browser interacts directly with Yahoo! servers allowing the 5,000 query per day limit to be extended to the end-user IP address."
A. So to be sure, all ward info stays on your computer and is not sent out to a third-party server?
B. Tom: The church doesn't have anything against this?
C. How big of a CSV file can you do? We have a lot of folks on the rolls.
Mike

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ihenpecked
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Postby ihenpecked » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:18 am

tomw wrote:If only address information is being submitted through some sort of WebAPI and information is returned in order to pinpoint the address on a map, I would assume that would be fine. If, on the other hand that the data was being collected by Yahoo or Google or some other 3rd party it would be a problem.

Tom

I found the following from the privacy section of the geocoding site. I understand better. Ronald is correct, it seems, in that the data never leaves your computer.
Mike

I get quite a few questions related to how secure and private data ran through the bulk geocoder will be kept. The quick answer is: Your data never really leaves your computer.

To explain, here's what happens when you use batchgeocode.com. You paste your data into the field on the screen and validate it. You then select which field is which and select what map options you want and so on. So far so good, you haven't even accessed the internet since you loaded the page (you can prove this on your own by unplugging your network cable after loading the page.)

The step of actually running the geocoder (and drawing the map) is the only step that actually interacts with the internet. However the only data that is actually transmitted is your address data, and it is not attached to any other information you may have included. So if someone out there happened to be interested enough to sniff the HTTP traffic, all they would see is a bunch of addresses, with no contextual information to place them in.

Even the process of drawing the map keeps your data a secret. The only request that goes to the internet is to Yahoo to download the few map tiles that surround your geocoded points. So if our persistent GIS data hacker is still listening, all he sees is a few tiles fly by for Paris, Texas or Sacramento, California... Or wherever. Point is even when your little map points show up on the map, your data is still kept local to your computer. The entire process is just done in JavaScript client side in your browser.

Now, say you choose to use the "Save Map to Web Page" feature... Well this will actually send your data to our server where they will be saved. So if you just can't have your data go over the Internet, stay away from this option. "Download to Google Earth" sends the data as well, but it is never saved, just put into a KML which gets sent back to you and then destroyed.

A bit more on "Save Map to Web Page," doing this will not automatically publish your information to the Internet so to speak. It will be available to anyone who knows the URL, but guessing the URL is impossible. So unless you choose to share it with anyone, it will remain a secret. You can use it in this way to create maps that are of personal interest to you, but no one
else.

rickross-p40
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Postby rickross-p40 » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:12 am

Its not the 'hackers' I would worry about, it is the authorized dataminers that will probably have access to this information. Obviously if you run a batch job, every address in your batch will be uploaded. Privacy policies aside, I'm pretty sure that they will record and somehow use this information. They know that there is some correlation between all of these addresses by virture of the fact that you have grouped them together.

If they cross reference this to other data sources they have (or if they sell the info to some dataminers who have this kind of info) then they will be able to infer information.

For example, lets say you plan to do some ward boundary alignment work in your stake. You use this tool to geocode the entire list of stake addresses. Now these guys have a list of 2000 or so addresses. They start cross referencing these addresses against other databases, and they may be able to find that many of the addresses are associated with LDS church members. They may then be able to conclude that all of the 2000 addresses belong to LDS church members. Before too long, a stake member may end up getting mail addressed to 'Brother Jones' peddling the latest sure-fire testimony building software for his 4, 6, and 8 year old kids.

Maybe I'm just too cautious. But keep in mind you are in fact surrendering a list of addresses to some unknown entity that is providing you (at some cost to themselves) a 'free' service. How do you suppose they will cover their costs?

The_Earl
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Church GIS Data

Postby The_Earl » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:45 am

So it turns out Garysturn has a list of the lat/long of at least a few of the temples. I imagine he has them all somewhere.

Not to call Gary out, but I wonder how much 'public record' information has actually been encoded by the church and the community.

Could we get a release of what the church has, or start building a community list that was public? I am wondering about NOT-member GIS info, like where chapels and temples are located.

I do have concerns about making the info easily found. If you submitted a list of people's addresses with a known chapel location, that might imply membership. Your directions to the temple could imply your temple worthiness. This type of info would be the sort of thing that a data-miner might use.

All of these building locations are public knowledge to some extend or another. Temples aren't exactly meant to be stealth. :)

I can see how some of this info would be useful. I could plan directions to a meeting, or temple. I could find a chapel close to where I am on vacation and other such things. In NY, we occasionally had area or regional conferences in other cities. We would have to pass directions out at meetings and such to get everyone there.

I don't think there is a good reason to publicize things like temple districts, mission/ward/stake boundaries, as these aren't really public now, and don't really offer benefit to members at large. I guess if you were here in UT, you could find the house you wanted in the ward you wanted pretty quickly if you needed to.

Some other properties like welfare square, or the church office building might be nice, but I think they would be the exception rather than the rule.

Thanks
The Earl

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Hijt
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Postby Hijt » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:04 pm

ronald_schoedel wrote:You can map your ward out on Google Earth really easily. The homes of ward members will then show up as dots on the map, that you can click for address and phone info, and use the Google Earth program to generate directions, routes, etc.

Your bishop would probably enjoy seeing the ward mapped out on Google earth, and it is just as simple as taking the .csv file off the ward website and importing it thru batchgeocode.com, export as a kmz file, bring the kmz file into Google Earth, and voila...all done.

Ronald Schoedel
Anchorage, Alaska


Ron I tried to drop my csv file into the above mentioned batchgecode.com and it wouldn't take a csv file. I tried to cut and paste it but after allowing me copy or cut it, it wouldn't let paste it in to the "Step 2 Table". Can you explain what I did wrong.


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