Members using LDS Id's to authenticate in meeting houses

Discussions about Internet service providers (ISPs), the Meetinghouse Firewall, wired and wireless networking, usage, management, and support of Meetinghouse Internet
dfdavis
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Postby dfdavis » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:25 am

Aczlan wrote:Good to know

The only time that I worry about bandwidth is when running a webcast. Otherwise, it is catch as can.


The benefit I see to not splitting the network is that I can log on to the network and print to the networked printer in the Stake Clerks office. The downside is that anyone could do the same.
I really like the idea of a public open network and a private encrypted network. Kill 2 birds with one stone that way.


We have had similar experiences. As of now, most every adult who wants to can get on. Most of the youth are still locked out though. Being able to go to any building (that has internet) and get online would be a big plus for me...

Aaron Z

How do you have the youth locked out?
I have another way I want to try to phrase my original comment and question. Somehow that has got lost in the shuffle....
here goes..... What is the actual difference in the system if I have (number of users for the sake of conversation here).... 50 users are logged in on Sunday morning using the current LDSAccess or....if I have the same 50 users logged in using their LDS logon username and passwords? X amount of users is still X amount of users either way.
Everyone here...if they are willing to be honest with themselves know, someone (member or ?) will always be willing to give others the info/help for logon either way the Church decides to go here. When push comes to shove...our Stake presidents will allow people who ask him, the ability to logon, again either way...and everyone of our members will be able to come up with some reason why they need to use the wireless. Maybe all totally legit. That is the reason I am not yet willing to jump for joy just because of the LDS username and password issue and why this looks so appealing to some forum users here.
Donald F. Davis Jr.
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Bloomington Indiana :)

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:45 am

dfdavis wrote:What is the actual difference in the system if I have (number of users for the sake of conversation here).... 50 users are logged in on Sunday morning using the current LDSAccess or....if I have the same 50 users logged in using their LDS logon username and passwords? X amount of users is still X amount of users either way.

With the new system they'll still be using LDSAccess, but with an additional level of authentication using LDS Account. The difference is that some number of users might be excluded because the stake president sets a more restrictive access policy. But if the stake president allows all members to have access, then you're right -- there will be no difference in the number of connections used under the new system.
dfdavis wrote:Everyone here...if they are willing to be honest with themselves know, someone (member or ?) will always be willing to give others the info/help for logon either way the Church decides to go here.

No, I disagree. It's one thing to give people a wireless key, and in the current system you're right that this happens all the time. But in the new system, the only way to help someone logon who is not authorized is to actually share your LDS Account information, and I don't know people who share that. I certainly strongly advise people never to give that out, even when they are about to give it to me so that I can help them.
dfdavis wrote:When push comes to shove...our Stake presidents will allow people who ask him, the ability to logon, again either way...and everyone of our members will be able to come up with some reason why they need to use the wireless.

But stake presidents don't have any ability in the new system to grant any permission on a case-by-case basis. Stake presidents can only grant access to three groups: leaders, adults, and youth. Membership in those groups is controlled by calling and age, not by specific assignment.

In the scenario you are proposing where a person with no access begs the stake president for access, the only options the stake president would have are: give the person a leadership calling (that's ridiculous, unless they actually have the calling), or grant the entire group (e.g., all adults) access just because this one person begged. In that case, chances are that the stake president denied access to regular adults to preserve limited connections for the leaders, and reversing that decision would make it likely that leaders would not have the access the previous policy was designed to ensure -- that would be foolish.
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rbeede
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Postby rbeede » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:48 am

I think aebrown's response answers your question as to why have individual logins:
aebrown wrote:One of the features of the new authentication using LDS Account is that stake presidents can designate that three different sets of people (leaders, adults, and youth) will have any of three different levels of access (full filtered access, access to an approved list of LDS and genealogical sites, and none).
If someone were to give out their LDS Account information to someone else they would also give that person access to change their directory information or genealogy information too.

Additionally having users provide their LDS Account restricts usage to only people with LDS Accounts. Another benefit is that if illegal activity is done on the Church network via the wireless and the Church receives a subpoena for it then they can satisfy the legal requirement of providing who was performing the illegal activity.

Aczlan
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Postby Aczlan » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:48 am

dfdavis wrote:How do you have the youth locked out?
They don't have the passwords for the WPA2 secured networks (I know this because they know I have the passwords and they keep asking me for them).
dfdavis wrote:I have another way I want to try to phrase my original comment and question. Somehow that has got lost in the shuffle....
here goes..... What is the actual difference in the system if I have (number of users for the sake of conversation here).... 50 users are logged in on Sunday morning using the current LDSAccess or....if I have the same 50 users logged in using their LDS logon username and passwords? X amount of users is still X amount of users either way..
Started to type something, but aebrown covered it much better than I was doing.

Aaron Z

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Postby russellhltn » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:31 am

dfdavis wrote:What is the actual difference in the system if I have (number of users for the sake of conversation here).... 50 users are logged in on Sunday morning using the current LDSAccess or....if I have the same 50 users logged in using their LDS logon username and passwords?

Under the current system, the device can connect unknown to the user. With LDSAccess, another level of authentication is required. While the device could store that information, it would require the user to do it. As a result, you'd probably find fewer connected the network under the new system.
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dfdavis
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Postby dfdavis » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:42 am

RussellHltn wrote:Under the current system, the device can connect unknown to the user. With LDSAccess, another level of authentication is required. While the device could store that information, it would require the user to do it. As a result, you'd probably find fewer connected the network under the new system.

Today is the first I have heard of their actually being 3 separate groups to allow internet access to by the Stake President. I admit.. that is a step in the right direction. If it gets implemented right to start with.
Donald F. Davis Jr.
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dfdavis
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Postby dfdavis » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:46 am

RussellHltn wrote:Under the current system, the device can connect unknown to the user. With LDSAccess, another level of authentication is required. While the device could store that information, it would require the user to do it. As a result, you'd probably find fewer connected the network under the new system.
I am still puzzled at this one.... does no ones smartphone automatically logon to Wifi's (of my choosing) without me manually loggin on everytime I walk in the door except mine? I think that may be an ATT thing.....That is why I had 18 users one evening with no one in the building except me and 17 guys playing basketball in the gym with their phones laying on the stage.
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russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:13 pm

dfdavis wrote:I am still puzzled at this one.... does no ones smartphone automatically logon to Wifi's (of my choosing) without me manually loggin on everytime I walk in the door except mine?
Please define "login". Yes, I'm sure there are devices that will automatically connect to a WiFi. But with LDSAccess login, I expect it will behave more like a public WiFi hotspot where you're directed to a web page to do a login. I don't think I've seen a device that will both connect to a WiFi AND do such a login fully automatically.

With the current system, you need only connect to a password protected WiFi, but there is no "login". With the little information we have about the new system, I expect a true login will be required.
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dfdavis
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Postby dfdavis » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:08 pm

RussellHltn wrote:Please define "login". Yes, I'm sure there are devices that will automatically connect to a WiFi. But with LDSAccess login, I expect it will behave more like a public WiFi hotspot where you're directed to a web page to do a login. I don't think I've seen a device that will both connect to a WiFi AND do such a login fully automatically.

With the current system, you need only connect to a password protected WiFi, but there is no "login". With the little information we have about the new system, I expect a true login will be required.

Here is the one thing that I really am hoping for! I am also really interested in how, who and where this 3 layers of access is going to be controlled and monitored from. The Stake IT person can make some unfriendly people pretty fast telling them they cannot connect to the church system. I guess perceived because "I said so".
Right now...all our building(s) Wifi will connect itself automatically..(actually use up an IP address, access the internet etc) the second I walk into one of my buildings to my Blackberry torch. The building Wifi IS configured by the Salt lake network people just as it is. Not my configuration.
It's handy, I use that to make sure my system(s) is up and running and use it for troubleshooting connection issues rather than drag out my laptop right of the bat.
When I walk in on Sunday am, I can really quickly determine if the clerks are going to be able to transmit tithing settlement or not.
Donald F. Davis Jr.
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russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:39 pm

dfdavis wrote:Here is the one thing that I really am hoping for! I am also really interested in how, who and where this 3 layers of access is going to be controlled and monitored from.
We don't know a whole lot at this point. I'd imagine that the classifications into those groups is based on the information in MLS. Alan has indicated that ultimately it's the stake president that decides what the 3 groups are allowed. Frankly, anyone who tries to abuse me for what the SP decides, is going to find their name in a email to their bishop.

Now, it was my impression that church resources would be available to all users. The control was for going out side of church resources. Alan's post indicates differently, but I don't see what's to be gained by putting anyone on "no access" in normal situations.
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