One Meetinghouse Internet Implementation

Discussions about Internet service providers (ISPs), the Meetinghouse Firewall, wired and wireless networking, usage, management, and support of Meetinghouse Internet
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hkk2
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Postby hkk2 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:49 am

I'm still in the process of getting a chapel set. Between working a swing shift, a couple of summer classes, and wife & kids, time for myself to do things is rare. However, I'm in the process of getting pricing for internet connections.

Has anyone else had issues with how expensive construction installation costs may be? Most of my chapels, despite the ritzy neighborhoods, are outside of ADSL serviceable areas. So, I've been looking into cable and one chapel would be over $20,000 in construction costs just to bring in the connection. Is anyone else having these pricing issues?
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Postby russellhltn » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:00 am

cybr wrote:Most of my chapels, despite the ritzy neighborhoods, are outside of ADSL serviceable areas. So, I've been looking into cable and one chapel would be over $20,000 in construction costs just to bring in the connection. Is anyone else having these pricing issues?


Yow! I'd start looking at wireless solutions. Both fixed wireless (like Clearwire) as well as plans from cellular companies. The fixed wireless have a Ethernet connection just like a DSL/Cable modem. The cellular wireless would use a PCMCIA card and there's routers out that are combination WiFi router with a PCMCIA slot for connection. However the operating costs are going to be significant.

You might also give Xilec broadband a call. They have been contracted by the church to give ISP selection advice. They might come up with something better. Details [color="blue"]here[/color]

Dougvf-p40
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help

Postby Dougvf-p40 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:00 pm

I read the following but have a question. I installed a setup very similiar to what was described but I am having an issue. I have a wireless router connected (actually 3 of them) and some times when the PC connects I get a public IP address (192.X.X.X) and that will not let me out to the internet. What do I need to do to always ensure I get a 10.X.X.X IP address?

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Postby jdlessley » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:00 pm

Dougvf wrote:I read the following but have a question. I installed a setup very similiar to what was described but I am having an issue. I have a wireless router connected (actually 3 of them) and some times when the PC connects I get a public IP address (192.X.X.X) and that will not let me out to the internet. What do I need to do to always ensure I get a 10.X.X.X IP address?
This sounds like the WAP has DHCP functionality enabled and is conflicting with the DHCP of the Church provided firewall. Disable the DHCP server in the WAP and all IP addresses will be assigned by the Church provided firewall.
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Postby Mikerowaved » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:31 am

Dougvf wrote:I read the following but have a question. I installed a setup very similiar to what was described but I am having an issue. I have a wireless router connected (actually 3 of them) and some times when the PC connects I get a public IP address (192.X.X.X) and that will not let me out to the internet. What do I need to do to always ensure I get a 10.X.X.X IP address?

You received answers to your question in THIS thread. Generally, questions only need to need to be asked once.
So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.

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Good info.....a couple of questions

Postby dmyers » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:16 pm

Great information. I think our building is very similar to yours. I have been in the attic and it does not look very fun to get cabling to the clerks offices from the DMARC room where the internet connection was brought into.

You say you had pretty good wireless coverage around the building. Do you have thick, cinder block walls throughout the building? We do and that is one thing that worries me about wireless coverage. Also are your wireless routers just sitting in the clerks offices?


Alan_Brown wrote:Over the last weekend, I completed a successful (but not problem-free) implementation of an Internet connection, under the Meetinghouse Internet program approved for my area in the 26 Mar 2008 letter. In a previous post, I talked about the process of ordering DSL and getting it installed. Here I will talk about what happened inside the building.


The goals of the implementation were:
  1. Obtain a DSL connection for a building in our stake which did not have any Internet connection
  2. Extend that connection to each of the administrative computers in the three clerk's offices. W1 and W2 are on the west side of the building, and W3 is on the east side.
  3. Provide a wireless connection for the bishops' and clerks' offices, chapel, cultural hall, Relief Society room, multi-purpose room.
Preparation

We ordered and purchased the following hardware:
  • DSL modem from our ISP ($60, plus about $60 DSL line installation charge)
  • Church-managed Firewall from ldscatalog.com (listed at $500, but CHQ covers cost)
  • Two Linksys Ultra RangePlus Wireless-N Broadband Routers (WRT160N) ($80 each)
  • Cat5e cables ($50)
  • Extension cords, surge suppressors, phone jacks, phone cable ($70)
I consulted with the FM Group as to which office should contain the DSL modem, which pair of phone wires to use for the DSL line, and how and where to run the Cat5e cables. The FM Group sent a mechanic to the building to meet with me and walk through these issues, and even offered to meet the DSL provider to connect the DSL line to the demarcation point. Since I work over 30 minutes away from the building, I was grateful for that help.

DSL Connection
We accomplished goal #1 by obtaining a DSL connection from Qwest (the local phone company and our chosen ISP). Qwest ran the wire to the demarcation point. A 6-wire phone cable runs to each clerk's office, and only one pair of wires is used for phone service. With the help of my FM group, we identified an unused pair of wires (green/white) leading to W1 clerk's office. I changed the single phone jack plate to a double, rewiring the existing phone line to use one jack, and the green/white pair to use the other.

Once Qwest had run the wire to the punch panel, I connected their incoming pair of wires to the green/white pair for W1 at the punch panel. I followed Qwest's instructions for connecting the DSL modem we had purchased from Qwest. I connected it to my personal laptop, to avoid exposing an administrative computer to the Internet prior to setting up the firewall. Qwest provided a CD that smoothly went through the configuration and activation process. A few minutes later, I had a working DSL connection.

I then connected the Church-managed firewall to the DSL modem, and connected W1's administrative computer to the firewall. Everything on the network uses dynamic IP addressing. After IP addresses were refreshed, I opened a browser on the administrative computer and saw that I had a connection to the firewall, but I was not connected to the Internet because the firewall had not yet been activated.

I collected all the information required by the firewall Installation Guide (DSL provider, support number, connection speed, firewall serial number, firewall IP address, my name, contact info). I called the Global Service Desk and asked them to activate the firewall. I was transferred to second level support (OTSS) and the technician gathered all that information, then activated the firewall. The whole process took about 10 minutes. At the end, I had an Internet connection on W1's computer.

Wiring to other offices
We chose W1 for the DSL connection because the wall of W1's clerk's office with the phone jack is basically in the middle of the row of offices on the west side of the building. I installed one of the routers between the firewall and the administrative computer. I didn't configure the wireless settings at this point.

From that office, we ran a 50-ft Cat5e cable to W2's clerk's office on that side of the building. Because of the way the walls were constructed, I couldn't drop a cable into the box the phone cables came into. So we drilled a hole in the corner of each ceiling. Not the most attractive, but that's what the FM Group said I would have to do. So far so good. W2's office needed nothing more than a cable -- no additional hardware required. Their computer connected immediately.

Then the fun began. Running the 200-ft cable to W3’s clerk’s office is a tale that I could tell for hours – certainly at least the three hours it took to run that one cable. The attic of our 30-year old building is compartmentalized into areas that are not easy to get to from one another, and there are long stretches of dropped ceilings that you can’t cross. Fortunately, my 14-year-old son on two occasions was able to throw a rope connected to the cable over 25 feet to within 6 inches of my hand that was reaching out through a hole in the wall. We finally reached W3’s office, drilled a hole, and dropped the cable through.

Wireless
In W3’s office we put the second router. I disabled the DHCP, since this router is really functioning only as a switch and wireless access point. I got the router, since it was the cheapest way to get that functionality, and administration is simpler with two matching devices. I configured it to use WPA-PSK security. I configured the other router in W1’s office to use WPA-PSK security, and the same key.

I tested the range by walking around the building with my laptop, which has a built-in 802.11b adapter (it’s a rather old laptop). I was pleasantly surprised to find that I had a reasonable connection throughout the chapel, all the bishop and clerk offices, the RS and multi-purpose rooms, and the cultural hall. Only along the back hall (which contains the Primary room and a dozen classrooms) was I not able to get a signal. I’m guessing that if I had a 802.11n adapter I would be able to get a signal even there. If that were a requirement, I could probably locate another access point or two on that end of the building, but that is not a requirement now and I’m not anxious to face that attic again.

Security
At this point our stake president has said that the WPA key should be shared only with bishoprics, stake presidency, executive secretaries, clerks, and assistants. Other specific individuals may be told the key if bishops make an appropriate request. We want the connection to be used for valid Church purposes, but not so broadly known that it will be used too casually for other purposes.

Conclusions
The process went rather smoothly except for the challenges running the 200-ft cable. The one-time installation costs were around $400; the monthly cost will be $44 plus tax for the business rate for a 1.5Mbps DSL connection. MLS has been configured to use the Internet connection, rather than dial-up, and transmission speeds are much faster. So far, everyone is happy.

I hope this was helpful. If I missed anything or if you have any questions, please post a response.

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Postby aebrown » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:38 pm

drmyers wrote:Great information. I think our building is very similar to yours. I have been in the attic and it does not look very fun to get cabling to the clerks offices from the DMARC room where the internet connection was brought into.

You say you had pretty good wireless coverage around the building. Do you have thick, cinder block walls throughout the building? We do and that is one thing that worries me about wireless coverage. Also are your wireless routers just sitting in the clerks offices?


Yes, we have thick cinder block walls throughout the building. That's why we don't get much of a signal along the entire back hall of the building. But as I said, that area wasn't a requirement.

The wireless routers are up on the top of the built-in bookshelves in the two clerk offices. So we haven't had any problem with them being disturbed. If we had such problems, I might consider some locking cabinets, but we've been going for two years now, and haven't had a hint of such problems.
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Postby techgy » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:07 pm

We installed wireless Internet in all four buildings in our stake about 18 months ago. The Stake Center is constructed of the usual Cinder-Block material. Instead of purchasing the retail wireless routers which are somewhat limited in power, we purchased Engenius Wireless Bridges Model ecb 3610S. These are rated at 600mw, which is almost 10x more than the standard routers available over the counter. They more expensive also but they have been working quite well.
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Postby aebrown » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:36 pm

techgy wrote:These are rated at 600mw, which is almost 10x more than the standard routers available over the counter.


I'm not sure where you get the 10x figure, but that seems a bit exaggerated. The WRT160N described in this thread is rated at 428mW in G mode, 432mW in N mode.
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Postby techgy » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:07 pm

Alan_Brown wrote:I'm not sure where you get the 10x figure, but that seems a bit exaggerated. The WRT160N described in this thread is rated at 428mW in G mode, 432mW in N mode.


The common wireless routers that I'd reviewed when we were researching the plan put out around 60 mw.
I would certainly acknowledge that there are wireless routers on the market that put out much more than the 60mw rating. I didn't look up the WRT160N.
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