Local Unit Document Translation

So you have the BIG idea that the Church or community needs to develop. Discuss that idea here. Maybe you just want to make a suggestion on a new forum topic. Let us know.
Kent Larsen-p40
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#11

Post by Kent Larsen-p40 »

tomw wrote:I was speaking much more generally. So for my little experiment that started this thread my recent comments are overkill. However we are discussing building a community translation site where we can involve members from around the world to help in translation of various information.

Tom
Tom, I was talking on THIS thread about a private service, as The Earl has correctly noted.

You seem to be confounding THIS thread with the "Calling all Spanish Speakers" thread. I created THIS new thread specifically because the proposal was significantly different.

Yes, they are both about translation.

BUT, I think our local units need their own translation "sandbox" to make sure that the local documents they need are translated. This is important!!! Getting instructions from SLC in each language is important. But I think many of us that work in stakes or wards or branches with more than one language would feel that translating their own documents into the languages in their unit is EVEN MORE IMPORTANT!! After all, in the cases I'm talking about, the leaders generally speak English. Its their communications with the members of their units that are at issue.

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#12

Post by Kent Larsen-p40 »

MorettiDP wrote:I know that is available these site https://apps.lds.org/letters/SignIn.jsp. I can't have access (and I believe that any Brazilian leaders can't have access too), but I believe that it's a repository of the letters that priesthood leaders receive weekly.
You are right, I believe (although I don't have access myself).
MorettiDP wrote:This system can be maked available to more leaders or language tools can be added to make available letters in most languages, like Spanish and (please!) Portuguese.

An "letter number" can be created (or the XXXXX XXX material number can be used) to index letters and make more easy to leaders access letters in different languages that your native language.
Really, this idea belongs on the "Calling all Spanish Speakers" thread, doesn't it?

The idea I'm proposing is principally aimed at bilingual units, where it makes sense to limit the authorized translators.

Tom Welch's idea on the "Calling all Spanish Speakers" thread I think covers a general collaborative translation tool -- one that would translate documents for everyone.

Although, given the nature of the letters you are referring to, the problems with Tom's proposal could mostly be solved by having a permissions system -- authorize everyone to work on general, low-risk documents (like these forums) and authorize successively more dependable translators to work on more difficult and higher risk documents (such as the letters).

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#13

Post by Kent Larsen-p40 »

The Earl wrote:I had misunderstood.

Tom is talking about an open community translation project, specifically to help with disseminating community information (like this forum) to multiple languages. The translations in question would be open to the world at large, and the world at large would be eligible to assist with the translation.

You seem to be wanting a private service, with well-vetted individuals (called by their leadership) to translate. You also want this to be church wide, so that you can benefit from the spanish speakers in my stake, and we can benefit from those in your ward that speak german. This service would mostly work on local documents, like letters from stake presidents, sacrament meeting talks, etc. It may or may not include doctrinal, or sensitive material.
Yes, you're correct. For some reason people keep confusing the "Calling all Spanish Speakers" thread, with this one. While I can see the underlying software being similar, the purposes and needed controls would be quite different.

The advantage with THIS idea is that the software could be optimized and sensitivity and operational aspects fixed before a version made for the broader purpose.

As for your suggestion "It may or may not include doctrinal, or sensitive material" I hadn't envisioned this being used for sensitive material. In bilingual wards and stakes, the problem is simply getting the word out to members about events and things they need to know.

We just need a way to get the announcement of the Christmas Party or the Primary Activity or the letter from the Stake President into everyone's hands.

The way I envision it, the Stake President and those leaders he designates would control what documents could be posted for translation. The same people could determine who is allowed to see the translations and help translate them.

Doesn't it make sense that these things are the bulk of the needs in bilingual units?
The Earl wrote:I this this is a GREAT idea, and probably a much lower red-tape barrier than an open community project. As you stated, the software could be similar, so both projects would benefit from the development effort.

It sounds like TomW has at least a proof-of-concept application built, and certainly the Mormon-translation wiki is proof-of-concept.
Well, both of these are certainly proof-of-concept, but I should emphasize that Mormon Translation isn't anywhere near what you would need for what I'm describing or even what TomW is describing -- since its built on Mediawiki, there simply isn't good security built in.
The Earl wrote:One question:
What sorts of local docs do you need translation help with? Would this include doctrine, like talks, High Council messages etc? Would it include sensitive information like church court documents?
Again, the problem is the mundane, everyday documents -- programs, announcements, flyers, posters, etc. I suppose talks and doctrinal materials would likely be included. But I never thought that sensitive documents would be included - mainly because senstive documents and collaborative translation don't mix, IMO.

As I envisioned, the Stake President would have control over who had access and what documents would be made available for translation.
The Earl wrote:The next question is where to put this, as it would have to be accessible worldwide, but probably not public facing. In a corporate environment, this type of thing would usually be put behind the firewall, and require VPN access.

So it could be only on church computers, and require connecting to the church's sytems to function (like MLS).

It could also be in an authenticated part of the church's web site, like LUWS or similar.

I like this idea!
The Earl
I think this depends a lot on what kind of documents you make available. If you caution those in charge locally not to add sensitive documents and to be careful with doctrinal materials, and if you provide enough support so that doctrine can easily be translated well, I think that this will be a very useful tool.

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#14

Post by MorettiDP »

[quote="Kent Larsen"] Really, this idea belongs on the "Calling all Spanish Speakers" thread, doesn't it?

The idea I'm proposing is principally aimed at bilingual units, where it makes sense to limit the authorized translators.

Tom Welch's idea on the "Calling all Spanish Speakers" thread I think covers a general collaborative translation tool -- one that would translate documents for everyone.

Although, given the nature of the letters you are referring to, the problems with Tom's proposal could mostly be solved by having a permissions system -- authorize everyone to work on general, low-risk documents (like these forums) and authorize successively more dependable translators to work on more difficult and higher risk documents (such as the letters).

Kent[/quote]

But, if you have a letter translated by Translation Department in SLC, you don't need to re-translate the same letter for use on a bilingual ward. See it:
This notice, with attachment, is being translated and will be distributed to units identified as Albanian, Armenian, Bulgarian, Cambodian, Chinese, Czech, Danish, Dutch, Finnish, French, German, Hungarian, Indonesian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Mongolian, Norwegian, Portuguese, Romanian, Russian, Samoan, Spanish, Swedish, Thai,Tongan, Ukrainian, and Vietnamese. Distribution in these languages will be complete within two weeks. Additional broadcast languages may be listed in the attachment. Please notify units whose leaders or members speak these languages so that all who are invited may know when to attend the broadcast in their language. Leaders of units in the United States and Canada may request copies from the Salt Lake Mail Operations Center (1-800-453-3860, ext. 2-1990). Leaders in other areas of the world may request copies in the languages listed above from local service centers. If leaders need this notice in languages not listed above, they may contact the Area Presidency or the member of the Presidency of the Seventy who supervises the area. Area leaders can forward requests to the Publications and Media Project Office at Church headquarters (1-801-240-2933). 00000 000
It's a text commonly present at the reverse of church letters and memos. It show that in two weeks the letter will be available in all that languages. More common languages like Spanish, Italian and Portuguese receive the translation almost immediately. If the local unit need it in another language than English and a letter repository is available, the unit can print a translated version so it's available.

Two weeks isn't a long time to wait, I believe. If the letter is sent by mail, it may be that it reaches the leader on the day the translated version is already available on the web.[/font]
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#15

Post by Kent Larsen-p40 »

MorettiDP wrote:

But, if you have a letter translated by Translation Department in SLC, you don't need to re-translate the same letter for use on a bilingual ward.
MorettiDP, please read the other posts in this thread.

I am NOT suggesting that the letters from SLC be translated in this way. That is another thread.

I'm worried about local leaders getting locally produced documents translated.

That is the BULK of the translation problem they face -- for example, how to get the Stake Conference program into Chinese for the Chinese-speaking members in the stake.

You are right, SLC takes care of most of the important documents they produce.

SLC can't really do local documents.

Its the local documents that give bilingual units all the work.

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MorettiDP
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#16

Post by MorettiDP »

Oh, sorry, hehehehehe :-).

Now I can understand!!! I need to improve more my English...

But now a question, if you make in the unit the local materials, why can't a member with knowledge of that language help in translate the work.

For exemple, if I use MS Word to make the Conference program in English, why can't an assistant clerk be called to help me to translate the program to Chinese. The MS Word file can be translated with no problems (I believe).

Thanks for your support!
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#17

Post by Kent Larsen-p40 »

MorettiDP wrote:Oh, sorry, hehehehehe :-).
But now a question, if you make in the unit the local materials, why can't a member with knowledge of that language help in translate the work.
They can. That is exactly what this idea tries to do -- make it possible for many members to collaborate on completing these translations.

As I envision it, unless the local leader posting the document feels that access to the document needs to be restricted in some way, the document would be available to any member to help translate. Sensitive or doctrinal documents may need to be controlled, but simple announcements could be translated by any number of people, each of whom might have edited portions of the document like happens on a wiki.
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a matter of synergy

#18

Post by marianomarini »

You can try with programs that help translations like kbabel. It can help your local translators avoiding waste of time translating the same phrases in different documents.
And you can share your local 'phrases dictionary' with others.
For example. If I write a letter in English about Home teaching of my branch it will be, probably, 70% equal to your. So, if you need it, you can use my Italian translation of it with 70% work done! And viceversa I can use your Spanish translation for a same rate.
This will make translation process more easy and fast and the rate will increase with translation progress.
The only think to do is: share dictionary.
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Possible Google document translation service

#19

Post by danpass »

Kent Larsen-p40
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#20

Post by Kent Larsen-p40 »

marianomarini_vi wrote:You can try with programs that help translations like kbabel. It can help your local translators avoiding waste of time translating the same phrases in different documents.
And you can share your local 'phrases dictionary' with others.
For example. If I write a letter in English about Home teaching of my branch it will be, probably, 70% equal to your. So, if you need it, you can use my Italian translation of it with 70% work done! And viceversa I can use your Spanish translation for a same rate.
This will make translation process more easy and fast and the rate will increase with translation progress.
The only think to do is: share dictionary.
Certainly kbabel is one major tool that could be used for what I'm talking about. Unfortunately, it is not itself sufficient.

For example, I don't see how kbabel would manage security and access to the documents being translated. If one translator has logged in and is partway through translating a confidential letter from the Stake President or a Bishop to a particular member, and the SP or Bishop has asked a 2nd translator to review, correct and complete the translation, kbable wouldn't control all of that.

It would manage the translation process and make the dictionary or dictionaries available to all.

The issue here is not just sharing dictionaries and other translation tools. It is sharing, with proper control and authorization, the task of translation itself!
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