Will LCR be available to YM quorum advisors and specialist?

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johnshaw
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Re: Will LCR be available to YM quorum advisors and specialist?

#11

Post by johnshaw »

lajackson wrote:
tech3627 wrote:As the councilor in YM I had access to see all the YM in the ward and the ability to send messages to YM and parents through LCR. My access to this information and these abilities is now gone.
Whether or not you will again receive access, I believe this will provide an opportunity for the counselor in the bishopric who is over your quorum, and who does have access, to rise to the responsibility he has been given as a member of the bishopric.
I hear what you're saying, but seriously... here's how it plays out:

YM Adviser/Specialist --> Bishopric Member: Hey, I notice in tools that I don't even have access to a list of boys in the quorum I'm assigned to. I can see the presidency but not the list of the boys.
Bishopric Member --> YW Adviser/Specialist: Yes you do, just look right here, it's here in mine, have you sync'd your tools lately/you might need to reinstall/maybe it's different on and iphone
YM Adviser/Specialist --> Shakes head and walks away, whatever dude.

Several Weeks Go by

Bishopric member --> Adviser/Specialist: Hey, can you get a list of boys together for assignment X
Adviser/Specialist --> Bishopric member: - Bishop, I don't have access to any list, not on LCR, not in Tools, remember I told you about it
Bishopric member --> Adviser/Specialist: Yes you do, just look.... blah, blah, blah
Adviser/Specialist --> Whatever, creates list, leaves a boy off, doesn't spell names right (because he was born before Utah moms started changing the way names are spelled because of pinterest or whatever)

Months go by

Bishopric member --> ALL YW and YM leaders/specialists/advisers: We've discovered that some of you don't have access to tools, or can't get access to all the youth for various reasons. So we've called a specialist and given them a role in LCR/MLS that has acces to perform get all the data, that person will be making a spreadsheet with all the kids names, birthdates, addresses, phone numbers, etc. and we'll distribute them in an email and save it in google drive.

Adviser/Specialist (also the STS): BANGS HEAD ON WALL


I noticed the change here when the Church released the new website - No YW/YM advisers could see a list of the YW or YM in the quorums/organizations they were assigned to. Nobody believed them for a long time in leadership, because, well, they all have access, why wouldn't everyone else, some of them have had access for 10-15 years now, they don't even think twice about how hard this can be for others that the church has decided to create a line of demarcation. This person gets access this person doesn't, etc... at this point, only the Bishopric has access to info about the YM in each quorum, no other advisers/specialists have that access.

I've logged tickets twice now, the first one seemed to have a large number of accompanying tickets, because condescendingly, there was a little sticky-note reminder on the online org/directory that said, get with your quorum secretary. Good Grief, the AP leaders don't even have a secretary anymore. And the only other solution is to break church policy to provide it to the people that need it. It seems a no-brainer to AT LEAST see the LIST of YM/YW in the quorums/orgs that you've been assigned to. But I'm a broken record here.

Keep it the way it is and Adviser/Specialists will get the idea they are't all that vital to the work, that their concerns are not listened to, that because the YWP and the Bishopric still have the lists, they'll be perpetually confused why Advisers/Specialists don't have it and will assume something is wrong, not that the church does it specifically, and the end result is the data will be all over google which we've been trying to avoid in the first place.

And just to be clear, I've been a HUGE advocate of rights/responsiblilies/roles and assignments in MLS/LCR - I danced a jig when Stake Leaders were told to stop trying to micro-manage ward leaders with lists, etc, and to start being SME to the LEADERS, not a 2nd leader to those already led at the ward level, I loved that. I loved that we've been able to use a pretty decent A/A/A model based on callings, I really have, this, however, this --> MAKES NO SENSE in that world. YM Advisers/Specialists are really supposed to rely on Bishopric members to be the 'administrators' of the AP quorums, they have an entire administrative staff that covers most of those things for them already. Why not just release ExecSec/Clerks and assign that to the Bishoprics to 'rise to their responsibility'?

Is anybody there? Does anybody care? Does anybody see... what I see? - John Adams
“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom.”
― Thomas Paine, Common Sense
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johnshaw
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Re: Will LCR be available to YM quorum advisors and specialist?

#12

Post by johnshaw »

And just for funzies, I explained to the 2nd Counselor in the Bishopric this morning that I didn't have access to pull a list of boys online or in Tools and asked if he could send me one.

He sent me a link to a report on LCR.
“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom.”
― Thomas Paine, Common Sense
steele7
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Re: Will LCR be available to YM quorum advisors and specialist?

#13

Post by steele7 »

Maybe I am not following all of the discussion here but as clerk, I am getting similar questions/comments from newly called YM Advisers and Specialists. We have called multiple Advisers and Specialists but none of them have any access into the quorums to which they have been called in terms of seeing a quorum member list, etc. It doesn't look like any access for these callings have been granted yet. Is that correct? Looking at the Access Table, 'Young Mens Presidency' still exists. I am assuming this needs to be removed and specific accesses will need to be granted for the Advisers and Specialists?

Any ideas as to when this will be done?
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Re: Will LCR be available to YM quorum advisors and specialist?

#14

Post by russellhltn »

steele7 wrote:Any ideas as to when this will be done?
It will be done when it's done. We haven't heard what's happening.
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steele7
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Re: Will LCR be available to YM quorum advisors and specialist?

#15

Post by steele7 »

It will be done when it's done. We haven't heard what's happening.
Awesome - such great support. Nice. Really thought through this one. Missed requirement? Seems like :roll:
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Re: Will LCR be available to YM quorum advisors and specialist?

#16

Post by russellhltn »

Please keep in mind who the real "customer" is. It's not the membership or the leadership the church is trying to satisfy.

I don't know what's going on. It would be nice to know, but I also know from experience that we don't always get that.

In a year's time, this won't matter.
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lajackson
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Re: Will LCR be available to YM quorum advisors and specialist?

#17

Post by lajackson »

steele7 wrote:Awesome - such great support. Nice. Really thought through this one. Missed requirement? Seems like :roll:
Also keep in mind that this is a user-to-use discussion forum, and the developers rarely see things that take place here. We share the joy, the surprises, and the experiences here just as everyone else does.

While the whole world watches and smiles.
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Re: Will LCR be available to YM quorum advisors and specialist?

#18

Post by russellhltn »

lajackson wrote:Also keep in mind that this is a user-to-use discussion forum, and the developers rarely see things that take place here. We share the joy, the surprises, and the experiences here just as everyone else does.
At the very least, we know we're not alone or doing something wrong. (or is it misery likes company?)
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steavis
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Re: Will LCR be available to YM quorum advisors and specialist?

#19

Post by steavis »

johnshaw wrote: YM Adviser/Specialist --> Bishopric Member: Hey, I notice in tools that I don't even have access to a list of boys in the quorum I'm assigned to. I can see the presidency but not the list of the boys.
Bishopric Member --> YW Adviser/Specialist: Yes you do, just look right here, it's here in mine, have you sync'd your tools lately/you might need to reinstall/maybe it's different on and iphone
YM Adviser/Specialist --> Shakes head and walks away, whatever dude.
This scenario (or very near it) is playing out in my ward today.

And literally, after explaining that there are currently NO YM callings with any access whatsoever...
johnshaw wrote: Adviser/Specialist (also the STS): BANGS HEAD ON WALL
In my ward, a Specialist's wife happens to be the Primary Secretary. She can see all primary children. He can't see his quorum membership. At all.

One difference is that my bishopric is asking me and my membership clerk why it can't be fixed, or if we can add a calling so specialists can see them, etc. "You're a computer guy, can't you just fix it?"

The policy or exactness of the handbook isn't relevant to the discussion from their view -- the young men in the quorum are, and they are not being served. From the bishopric's point of view, the advisors they call and delegate to assist them with the logistics of multiple large quorums need to know who their members are and how to contact them at the very least.

Specialist access to up-to-date information in the Member Tools app is better than PDFs being sent around in Google drive, e-mail, or group texts, which is what ends up happening. And with that, you've now completely lost access controls. Most members won't consider security roles or controls or PII or breach fallout; the system just doesn't help them, so they work around it however they can.

When the letter of the law looks like a roadblock to accomplishing the work of a calling, members will find a way around it and feel like righteous champions of the spirit of the law while doing so.
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Re: Will LCR be available to YM quorum advisors and specialist?

#20

Post by russellhltn »

steavis wrote:"You're a computer guy, can't you just fix it?"
You have to tell him you lack the keys and authority to fix it.

He needs to take the issue up with the stake president to take to his presiding authority.
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