Latest, up-to-date instructions for bishopric, clerks, and secretaries?

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russellhltn
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Re: Latest, up-to-date instructions for bishopric, clerks, and secretaries?

#11

Post by russellhltn »

I'd think the precedence (from highest to lowest) would be: Official Communication Library, General Handbook, Help Center. However, things may not get updated in order.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

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jgoggan
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Re: Latest, up-to-date instructions for bishopric, clerks, and secretaries?

#12

Post by jgoggan »

The problem with the current system is that it doesn't handle NEW clerks very well. If a new clerk comes in, he's hopefully going to read the Handbook. In this situation, the Handbook is apparently still out of date -- and you're supposed to use a letter from a couple of years ago as the current information? Is a new clerk expected to go back and read through the last 2+ years of official letters to see if there are any references that override the Handbook?

That seems really odd to me -- especially for a digital edition that can be updated at will. I kinda feel like both should always happen at the same time -- when an official letter goes out with an update, the (online) Handbook should be updated to match at the same time. Clearly, if the letter went out, said changes have already been approved.
BrianEdwards
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Re: Latest, up-to-date instructions for bishopric, clerks, and secretaries?

#13

Post by BrianEdwards »

Again, I personally wouldn't characterize the Handbook as necessarily out-of-date for this particular case. It may be that by design the Handbook will not contain this level of detail, and that specifics like this will only ever be found in bulletins and Help Center articles. When there is uncertainty or contrary instructions that a new clerk (or a seasoned clerk) can't resolve, I'd just let the priesthood leader be aware of the info, and then he can make a decision. And if/when additional info is presented, adjustments are made.

I find sometimes that experienced leaders are the toughest nuts to crack, so to say. They can have decades of experience, and be convinced that the way the Church operated in the 90's is good enough for today, or at least that it's good enough for them. Newbies are ready to absorb and accept all info in ways that us older folks sometimes resist. I surely don't discount your description of the obstacles new clerks face -- while there's a lot of really helpful training info and videos available on LCR, for specific use-cases like the one here, it can be difficult to know where to look, and then how to ascertain what's the latest-and-greatest version of policy.
garystroble
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Re: Latest, up-to-date instructions for bishopric, clerks, and secretaries?

#14

Post by garystroble »

jgoggan wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:08 am The problem with the current system is that it doesn't handle NEW clerks very well. If a new clerk comes in, he's hopefully going to read the Handbook. In this situation, the Handbook is apparently still out of date -- and you're supposed to use a letter from a couple of years ago as the current information? Is a new clerk expected to go back and read through the last 2+ years of official letters to see if there are any references that override the Handbook?

That seems really odd to me -- especially for a digital edition that can be updated at will. I kinda feel like both should always happen at the same time -- when an official letter goes out with an update, the (online) Handbook should be updated to match at the same time. Clearly, if the letter went out, said changes have already been approved.
The bulletin is less than 14 months old, much closer to 1 year than 2 years. It is back only 34 bulletins from the latest one for a ward clerk to find in the Official Communications Library. The title is clearly about the subject we are discussing. Bulletin titles generally don't require reading through the actual bulletin to discover their subject.
BrianEdwards
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Re: Latest, up-to-date instructions for bishopric, clerks, and secretaries?

#15

Post by BrianEdwards »

Perhaps this was always in the Handbook, I never know if I've just missed something, or if it's a recent addition. Anyways, just an additional data point of info that I bumped into, which I don't believe has been included in this thread discussion.

GHB 31.4 talks about virtual interviews with members. The last paragraph talks about virtual temple recommend interviews, and states that after the priesthood leaders have signed the recommend (could be digital signatures), the recommend may be sent to the member (it does not state whether a pdf is acceptable which the member then prints, or whether the recommend printing must be done by the leader/clerk). The Stake clerk should not activate the recommend until after verifying the member received the recommend. Obviously this handbook section is specific to virtual interviews, and doesn't explicitly state it can be applied to in-person interviews. But at least in this scenario the Handbook does describe the process of a member receiving their recommend, with no witnessing of a signature required.
caillines
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Re: Latest, up-to-date instructions for bishopric, clerks, and secretaries?

#16

Post by caillines »

BrianEdwards wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:31 pm Perhaps this was always in the Handbook, I never know if I've just missed something, or if it's a recent addition. Anyways, just an additional data point of info that I bumped into, which I don't believe has been included in this thread discussion.

GHB 31.4 talks about virtual interviews with members. The last paragraph talks about virtual temple recommend interviews, and states that after the priesthood leaders have signed the recommend (could be digital signatures), the recommend may be sent to the member (it does not state whether a pdf is acceptable which the member then prints, or whether the recommend printing must be done by the leader/clerk). The Stake clerk should not activate the recommend until after verifying the member received the recommend. Obviously this handbook section is specific to virtual interviews, and doesn't explicitly state it can be applied to in-person interviews. But at least in this scenario the Handbook does describe the process of a member receiving their recommend, with no witnessing of a signature required.
That seems more targeted at recommends from the book to me. You can't print one of the electronic recommends before activating it, so you can't give one to the member first and activate later.
BrianEdwards
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Re: Latest, up-to-date instructions for bishopric, clerks, and secretaries?

#17

Post by BrianEdwards »

As always, very good point, I guess this section is silent about digital signatures and virtual interviews. I'm always glad when I share something and get corrected, if I just kept my thoughts to myself I wouldn't see other perspectives.
lajackson
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Re: Latest, up-to-date instructions for bishopric, clerks, and secretaries?

#18

Post by lajackson »

caillines wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:09 pm You can't print one of the electronic recommends before activating it, so you can't give one to the member first and activate later.
Actually, you can print it, but it is not yet activated. Remember that there are two processes. I suppose the most common is the digital signature process, where the ward interviews and updates LCR, then the stake interviews, updates LCR, prints the recommend and gives the activated recommend it to the member to sign.

But there is also a process where the ward interviews and prints the recommend in LCR, the member and bishop/counselor/president both sign it, and then the member takes the recommend to the stake for interview and signature. The recommend has been printed, but is not activated until the stake does so after the stake interview.

Again, though, I think most units use the digital signature method, so that the recommend is activated when it is printed. The stake sets the method of digital or manual signatures for each unit.
caillines
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Re: Latest, up-to-date instructions for bishopric, clerks, and secretaries?

#19

Post by caillines »

BrianEdwards wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:28 pm As always, very good point, I guess this section is silent about digital signatures and virtual interviews. I'm always glad when I share something and get corrected, if I just kept my thoughts to myself I wouldn't see other perspectives.
It turns out I was wrong :P

lajackson wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:03 pm
caillines wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:09 pm You can't print one of the electronic recommends before activating it, so you can't give one to the member first and activate later.
Actually, you can print it, but it is not yet activated. Remember that there are two processes. I suppose the most common is the digital signature process, where the ward interviews and updates LCR, then the stake interviews, updates LCR, prints the recommend and gives the activated recommend it to the member to sign.

But there is also a process where the ward interviews and prints the recommend in LCR, the member and bishop/counselor/president both sign it, and then the member takes the recommend to the stake for interview and signature. The recommend has been printed, but is not activated until the stake does so after the stake interview.

Again, though, I think most units use the digital signature method, so that the recommend is activated when it is printed. The stake sets the method of digital or manual signatures for each unit.
Ahh yes. I had forgotten manual signatures was still an option.
Always good to get these reminders, and I guess it shows the importance of this thread.
lajackson
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Re: Latest, up-to-date instructions for bishopric, clerks, and secretaries?

#20

Post by lajackson »

I believe that not too long from now (maybe within a year or much sooner), those attending the temple will be able to call up their recommend information in Member Tools, which will generate a QR code that then is scanned at the recommend desk. This is being tested in several places in the world right now.
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