I tested Kindoo on a tablet early in our installation process. It worked fine, but the tablet needs Bluetooth and an internet connection and needs to run the Android or iOS Kindoo app. I only tested on Android using the building's Liahona network. One important thing to note is the license can only be on one device at a time. If you log in on a different device, it will prompt to disable the license on the currently active device, so you can't have it active on a phone and tablet simultaneously.
Kindoo Access Control System
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Re: Kindoo Access Control System
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Re: Kindoo Access Control System
Thanks for that insight on using tablets.swigginton wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 4:14 pmI tested Kindoo on a tablet early in our installation process. It worked fine, but the tablet needs Bluetooth and an internet connection and needs to run the Android or iOS Kindoo app. I only tested on Android using the building's Liahona network. One important thing to note is the license can only be on one device at a time. If you log in on a different device, it will prompt to disable the license on the currently active device, so you can't have it active on a phone and tablet simultaneously.
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Re: Kindoo Access Control System
I Sent an email to support@kindoo.tech asking about tablets and got a reply from a person at @locktronics.com who indicated that they are the provider of the Kindoo system for The Church.
This was the answer regarding tablets:
If the tablet has Bluetooth and is connected to the internet via Wi-Fi or cellular data, it will indeed be able to open the door.
I would also assume that the tablet would also have to be an android or IOS
They also said that they created a dedicated website for church members that provides answers to most common questions regarding Kindoo. mfd.locktronics.com
At the bottom of that web page there is a button for training. https://mfd.locktronics.com/training.html I found that these training web pages loaded very slow for me.
And then there is an option to click on for Application Training.
https://mfd.locktronics.com/ApplicationTraining.html
Once on the Application Training web page, there are these categories.
Kindoo User Guide for Site Administrators (Facilities Managers) Designed for: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Administrators User Guide
Kindoo User Guide for Site Managers (Local Leaders) Designed for: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Managers User Guide
Kindoo User Guide for Ward Members and Guests Designed for: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Ward Members and Guests User Guide
Kindoo User Guide for Missionaries
User guide for missionaries
Kindoo Missionary Access Guidelines
Missionary access documentation
This was the answer regarding tablets:
If the tablet has Bluetooth and is connected to the internet via Wi-Fi or cellular data, it will indeed be able to open the door.
I would also assume that the tablet would also have to be an android or IOS
They also said that they created a dedicated website for church members that provides answers to most common questions regarding Kindoo. mfd.locktronics.com
At the bottom of that web page there is a button for training. https://mfd.locktronics.com/training.html I found that these training web pages loaded very slow for me.
And then there is an option to click on for Application Training.
https://mfd.locktronics.com/ApplicationTraining.html
Once on the Application Training web page, there are these categories.
Kindoo User Guide for Site Administrators (Facilities Managers) Designed for: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Administrators User Guide
Kindoo User Guide for Site Managers (Local Leaders) Designed for: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Managers User Guide
Kindoo User Guide for Ward Members and Guests Designed for: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Ward Members and Guests User Guide
Kindoo User Guide for Missionaries
User guide for missionaries
Kindoo Missionary Access Guidelines
Missionary access documentation
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Re: Kindoo Access Control System
In asking all of my questions about the Kindoo system, I keep getting told that the Kindoo system is easy and simple.ELHawkes wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:42 pm I Sent an email to support@kindoo.tech asking about tablets and got a reply from a person at @locktronics.com who indicated that they are the provider of the Kindoo system for The Church.
This was the answer regarding tablets:
If the tablet has Bluetooth and is connected to the internet via Wi-Fi or cellular data, it will indeed be able to open the door.
I would also assume that the tablet would also have to be an android or IOS
They also said that they created a dedicated website for church members that provides answers to most common questions regarding Kindoo. mfd.locktronics.com
At the bottom of that web page there is a button for training. https://mfd.locktronics.com/training.html I found that these training web pages loaded very slow for me.
And then there is an option to click on for Application Training.
https://mfd.locktronics.com/ApplicationTraining.html
Once on the Application Training web page, there are these categories.
Kindoo User Guide for Site Administrators (Facilities Managers) Designed for: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Administrators User Guide
Kindoo User Guide for Site Managers (Local Leaders) Designed for: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Managers User Guide
Kindoo User Guide for Ward Members and Guests Designed for: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Ward Members and Guests User Guide
Kindoo User Guide for Missionaries
User guide for missionaries
Kindoo Missionary Access Guidelines
Missionary access documentation
After looking through and reading these guides and after managing our current Sicunet eLock system that our Stake has had for the past 1-1/2 years, my concern is that the Kindoo system is being over sold. The Sicunet system is far less complicated and provides much more functionality.
We can add as many users to the system as needed without any licencing fees. Kindoo is $21 for each user licence
We can remote unlock any door on the system without having to install additional controllers at each door that remote access is wanted like the Kindoo system requires.
We have the option of using FOBs when needed. We have never had one break. when one is lost it is simply deactivated. FOBs are cheep. In my case I learned that I can get them for .25 cents each, a pack of 100 for 23-25$. I'll admit that my technical background allowed me to figure that out. But even if FOBs are $2.50 that is still quite inexpensive and they just don't get lost that often since very few members need them, about 95% of members use the Open Cesamee app for the Sicunet system in our Stake.
At any rate, the Kindoo system will probably replace our Sicunet system, but I just wanted to share my concerns.
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Re: Kindoo Access Control System
Also, the Kindoo system is not bullet proof.
It is possible for anyone that has been given a Kindoo account, so that they can install the Kindoo app, to simply share their account info with someone else and transfer access between devices so they can open doors.
Granted, it is just like sharing physical keys, the key can only be used by one person or device at a time.
It's basically the same process as when a user gets a new phone or device, and the Kindoo account is used to activate the app on the new phone and deactivate it on the previous device.
It is possible for anyone that has been given a Kindoo account, so that they can install the Kindoo app, to simply share their account info with someone else and transfer access between devices so they can open doors.
Granted, it is just like sharing physical keys, the key can only be used by one person or device at a time.
It's basically the same process as when a user gets a new phone or device, and the Kindoo account is used to activate the app on the new phone and deactivate it on the previous device.
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Re: Kindoo Access Control System
Sounds like yesterday's security. Which makes me suspect that it can easily be cloned by a Flipper Zero or other hacker devices.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.
So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
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Re: Kindoo Access Control System
While that's certainly possible, I can tell you that Kindoo has an impressive activity logging system that would likely detect this and raise it as potential license abuse. It wouldn't surprise me if they already have code to deal with it. It's clear you have an affinity for the Sicunet system. I've worked with several different access systems and they all have their pros and cons. No different here with Kindoo. But, it's one of the most simple yet elegant systems I've used. I've been involved in installing, training and using it over the past 2 1/2 years, with amazingly very few issues. It's very secure and reliable. Their development team has been incredibly responsive to my suggestions and has even made changes to implement many of my requests (in coordination with the Church ICS folks). Clearly, the Church's FM and ICS teams are sold on it, as it's being implemented within LCR and being rolled out to all meetinghouses in US and Canada. Having been involved in early implementation in our FM group, I know adoption by the Church was not done lightly. Everything I've experienced with it shows it to be a very good solution.
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Re: Kindoo Access Control System
That's true with most FOB systems and another advantage of Kindoo. It sends a unique encrypted key every few seconds which is processed in the app and server to generate a unique encrypted unlock response. That response can only be used once, so trying to clone the Bluetooth protocol is futile.russellhltn wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:45 pmSounds like yesterday's security. Which makes me suspect that it can easily be cloned by a Flipper Zero or other hacker devices.
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Re: Kindoo Access Control System
Yes, FOBs can be cloned/duplicated just like physical keys can.
One thing to remember is that these electronic lock systems do not eliminate physical locks and keys to the ward and Stake buildings.
Each building still has a door designated as the emergency door that still has a physical key. Many people still have the key to that door, such as Bishopric keys, Stk Pres Keys, SBR/PFR keys, FM personnel keys, and the locksmith that keyed the buildings.
That emergency door lock can still be picked, it is a very standard type of lock. There are plenty of videos showing how to do it.
Those keys can still be lost, stolen, cloned, or duplicated.
It was stated that I have an affinity (a spontaneous or natural liking or sympathy for someone or something.) for the Sicunet system, that is simply not the case. This Form is intended to share concerns and that is my intent. On the other hand, those who are making money through the promotion/sales and installation of the Kindoo system would have an affinity for the Kindoo system.
As stated, (access systems all have their pros and cons.) None of them are 100% secure.
There are plenty of fancy and elegant words used to promote the Kindoo system, but when it comes right down to it, it's usually just about making money for someone.
If someone really wants to get into a church building, they will figure it out, even if it is just as simple as breaking the glass, or entering the building when it is open and hiding until everyone is gone.
One thing to remember is that these electronic lock systems do not eliminate physical locks and keys to the ward and Stake buildings.
Each building still has a door designated as the emergency door that still has a physical key. Many people still have the key to that door, such as Bishopric keys, Stk Pres Keys, SBR/PFR keys, FM personnel keys, and the locksmith that keyed the buildings.
That emergency door lock can still be picked, it is a very standard type of lock. There are plenty of videos showing how to do it.
Those keys can still be lost, stolen, cloned, or duplicated.
It was stated that I have an affinity (a spontaneous or natural liking or sympathy for someone or something.) for the Sicunet system, that is simply not the case. This Form is intended to share concerns and that is my intent. On the other hand, those who are making money through the promotion/sales and installation of the Kindoo system would have an affinity for the Kindoo system.
As stated, (access systems all have their pros and cons.) None of them are 100% secure.
There are plenty of fancy and elegant words used to promote the Kindoo system, but when it comes right down to it, it's usually just about making money for someone.
If someone really wants to get into a church building, they will figure it out, even if it is just as simple as breaking the glass, or entering the building when it is open and hiding until everyone is gone.
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Re: Kindoo Access Control System
Yes, valid points that I definitely agree with.
Just to clarify my role with Kindoo, I’m a retired software/business guy who volunteers time to help our local FM. I was asked to look at Kindoo for possible implementation in our FM group. I did that and we found it to be a much better solution than the various access systems previously installed in our meetinghouses. I did many of the Kindoo installations throughout our area and charged a very small amount to cover my costs. For me personally, there is no real financial benefit. I am certainly a fan of using Kindoo for our Church meetinghouses, but only because of the installation/configuration ease, reliability and responsiveness of the Kindoo folks. There are much better systems for other applications, but this one fits our needs very well. There was a fair amount of initial resistance, but we’ve since heard very positive comments from the 13 stakes, 2 mission offices, 2 FamilySearch centers, 3 institutes and the temple distribution center where we’ve installed it.