I appreciate knowing that, but the husband and wife were grouped together in this situation. The problem was that their daughter only showed up on the husband's record as his child, but the wife's record stated "No children", nor did the child show on the household record. When I clicked "Add member" in the household window, the child's name was not in the pop-up member list. There was also no record for the child in Individual Records, even though she had a member number. When I clicked her name in the husband's record I would only get a small pop-up window with disabled fields showing her name, birth date, and birth place.
I will copy your suggestion into my notes in case I get the husband/wife not grouped situation in the future, which I guess you're saying is bound to happen at some point. Thanks again.
Two Sessions Req'd to Add a Family?
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opee
- Member
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:00 am
- Location: Sunnyvale, CA
My understanding is that there are 2 ways to have children listed in MLS (as RusselHltn stated earlier)
(1) Part of the Household
(2) Listed under the Father/Mother
There are times (as you found) that children listed under the parent are (a) not listed as part of the household, and (b) not the same for both the father and mother.
If you create a child's record for a father and mother in a household, the child will show up with a true membership record under the (1) the household list, and (2) as a child for the father and the mother. This child will have a record number because it is a membership record that you have created. Children who have moved out of the house (off to college or married), will not be part of the household, but will always be listed under the parents in the "Children" section.
You can add children to a parent in MLS without adding them to the household, or without creating a membership record. (I had a case where a father's non-member adult children were not listed under his membership record in the "Children" section.) I was able to go to the Children tab for the Father and Add Child for each of the missing children. This will create a child listed under the father, but not automatically under the mother (unless you specify that she is the mother). It will also create a "membership" number, but you have not created a membership record, just the name and birth date of a child to a father.
It appears to me that this is what happened to your record--where the child was listed under the father's "Children", but not the mother's, or the household. A membership record was not created--the child was only added to the father's record, and that is why you could not request a membership record, nor find one in MLS. Apparently, SLC created a record for that child and then added it to the household.
I had an exact situation as yours happen in one of the wards in my Stake last month, and the clerk was able to create a membership record and then place the child in the (1) household, and (2) listed under both parents.
(1) Part of the Household
(2) Listed under the Father/Mother
There are times (as you found) that children listed under the parent are (a) not listed as part of the household, and (b) not the same for both the father and mother.
If you create a child's record for a father and mother in a household, the child will show up with a true membership record under the (1) the household list, and (2) as a child for the father and the mother. This child will have a record number because it is a membership record that you have created. Children who have moved out of the house (off to college or married), will not be part of the household, but will always be listed under the parents in the "Children" section.
You can add children to a parent in MLS without adding them to the household, or without creating a membership record. (I had a case where a father's non-member adult children were not listed under his membership record in the "Children" section.) I was able to go to the Children tab for the Father and Add Child for each of the missing children. This will create a child listed under the father, but not automatically under the mother (unless you specify that she is the mother). It will also create a "membership" number, but you have not created a membership record, just the name and birth date of a child to a father.
It appears to me that this is what happened to your record--where the child was listed under the father's "Children", but not the mother's, or the household. A membership record was not created--the child was only added to the father's record, and that is why you could not request a membership record, nor find one in MLS. Apparently, SLC created a record for that child and then added it to the household.
I had an exact situation as yours happen in one of the wards in my Stake last month, and the clerk was able to create a membership record and then place the child in the (1) household, and (2) listed under both parents.
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Eric Werny-p40
- Member
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:21 am
- Location: St. George, Utah
- Contact:
Don't Assume Anything
Here are a couple of tips that help me as a membership clerk.
1. If you have a new active family move into the ward. Ask to see their recommend (besides having the full name and DOB's. This help you kill two birds with one stone. A. You get their membership numbers and B. You find out if they have a current recommend to put into the system.
Now when I do that, I normally get the records within a couple of hours or less. Longer if I only have the DOB.
Alway asked for the head of household unless your know somethings up.
2. Read the membership carefully (read everything). Look for clues that will tip you off to errors from the previous wards. A lot of errors get passed on over time.
3. When you see "Contact Former Bishop", get this in the hand of the
Bishop as soon as possible, don't wait until Sunday. Give him a heads up.
4. I check the local Sheriff's web site for current bookings. This gives
us a hint as to who will be out on bail, moving to a local motel, and then contacting the Bishop for help. We have a lot of motels in our ward. This helps the Bishop know who the new "Stars of the County"
are. It's really fun when you see a ward member show up on the list.
I have never figured out why some of these people smile for the camera. It is like they are proud of this special moment.
5. The Bishop is the last word on move outs. Don't take anyone word for it that some has moved out until the Bishop has given you the wave of the hand. ( I attend Bishopric meeting with the Ward Clerk to discuss the needs of members, and record changes )
6. Never show a membership record to a spouse. We had a situation
where a husband didn't know about an extra child on the list. And it caused some real sparks. If you see something that looks out of place, give it to your Bishop. Let him drop the bomb.
7. Keep your area clear of paperwork once your finished with a project. Don't level any membership record information laying
around. (Membership records are for the Bishop and Clerks eyes only)
8. When members come into the clerks office uninvited, turn your paperwork over. These are confidential records.
9. Keep the Clerk office door closed. This keep those happy bored members from coming into visit when your buried in paperwork.
(I learned that one the hard way - I had to escort the person out)
10. Primary kids love to get hugs from the Bishopric. Don't allow them in the clerks office. Your setting yourself up for a very ugly problem.
11. Have meeting with other clerks to talk over problems. We are very lucky to have a three ward clerks office. This is wonderful. Anytime any of us have a problem, we can pipe up and ask for help. Some always knows the answer. That is why this forum is fantastic. The Brothers and Sisters at CO have to much to do already, and asking it hear will get you some very solid the CORRECT advise.
Thanks for allowing me to Ramble -- But I hope some of my comments are helpful to somebody. I guess my habits from the military working in Crypto trained me to love red bordered paper, and flashing blue lights
Regards, EW
1. If you have a new active family move into the ward. Ask to see their recommend (besides having the full name and DOB's. This help you kill two birds with one stone. A. You get their membership numbers and B. You find out if they have a current recommend to put into the system.
Now when I do that, I normally get the records within a couple of hours or less. Longer if I only have the DOB.
Alway asked for the head of household unless your know somethings up.
2. Read the membership carefully (read everything). Look for clues that will tip you off to errors from the previous wards. A lot of errors get passed on over time.
3. When you see "Contact Former Bishop", get this in the hand of the
Bishop as soon as possible, don't wait until Sunday. Give him a heads up.
4. I check the local Sheriff's web site for current bookings. This gives
us a hint as to who will be out on bail, moving to a local motel, and then contacting the Bishop for help. We have a lot of motels in our ward. This helps the Bishop know who the new "Stars of the County"
are. It's really fun when you see a ward member show up on the list.
I have never figured out why some of these people smile for the camera. It is like they are proud of this special moment.
5. The Bishop is the last word on move outs. Don't take anyone word for it that some has moved out until the Bishop has given you the wave of the hand. ( I attend Bishopric meeting with the Ward Clerk to discuss the needs of members, and record changes )
6. Never show a membership record to a spouse. We had a situation
where a husband didn't know about an extra child on the list. And it caused some real sparks. If you see something that looks out of place, give it to your Bishop. Let him drop the bomb.
7. Keep your area clear of paperwork once your finished with a project. Don't level any membership record information laying
around. (Membership records are for the Bishop and Clerks eyes only)
8. When members come into the clerks office uninvited, turn your paperwork over. These are confidential records.
9. Keep the Clerk office door closed. This keep those happy bored members from coming into visit when your buried in paperwork.
(I learned that one the hard way - I had to escort the person out)
10. Primary kids love to get hugs from the Bishopric. Don't allow them in the clerks office. Your setting yourself up for a very ugly problem.
11. Have meeting with other clerks to talk over problems. We are very lucky to have a three ward clerks office. This is wonderful. Anytime any of us have a problem, we can pipe up and ask for help. Some always knows the answer. That is why this forum is fantastic. The Brothers and Sisters at CO have to much to do already, and asking it hear will get you some very solid the CORRECT advise.
Thanks for allowing me to Ramble -- But I hope some of my comments are helpful to somebody. I guess my habits from the military working in Crypto trained me to love red bordered paper, and flashing blue lights
Regards, EW
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thedqs
- Community Moderators
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:53 am
- Location: Redmond, WA
- Contact:
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terrysackett
- Member
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:58 pm
opee wrote:You can add children to a parent in MLS without adding them to the household, or without creating a membership record. (I had a case where a father's non-member adult children were not listed under his membership record in the "Children" section.) I was able to go to the Children tab for the Father and Add Child for each of the missing children. This will create a child listed under the father, but not automatically under the mother (unless you specify that she is the mother). It will also create a "membership" number, but you have not created a membership record, just the name and birth date of a child to a father.
It appears to me that this is what happened to your record--where the child was listed under the father's "Children", but not the mother's, or the household. A membership record was not created--the child was only added to the father's record, and that is why you could not request a membership record, nor find one in MLS. Apparently, SLC created a record for that child and then added it to the household.
The child in this case had a membership record (which could not be edited) and both parents' names were listed on the blessing certificate.
It turns out there was a glitch in the Send/Receive process at some point after she was blessed and it could only be fixed at the administration office. There is nothing that could have been done on the local level to fix it, except request help from HQ, which is what I did.
Thanks again for all the help gentlemen.
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Jeremy-p40
- New Member
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:51 pm
[quote="SR Ward Clerk"]Thanks again for all the help everyone. The recording/grouping difference makes sense. I printed the member's copies of the IOSes to have the couple check them, but with General Conference and our stake conference I won't see them for two more weeks. The parents are grouped in the same household, and the child (who definitely has a member record number) is not. She shows on the father's record as his child, but no children are shown on the mother's record. She was born to them in my ward and blessed there (I remember the blessing because the father is my home teacher). I tried to do an "add child" to the mother, but the child's name did not come up in the list, I imagined because she is already attached the father. I will next try to do an "add child" in the Household window as you suggested, RussellHtn.
If you use the Add Child feature on the parent's, you will create a linked record, which is not a membership record. That's how linked records are created, and usually why a child shows on one parent's IOS but not on the other parent's. If you want to see if a record was ever created for the child, request the record through MLS. If there is a record, you will get it. If not, you should talk to the parents and if both of them consent to have a record created, you may create a record for the child using the New Child of Record feature.
Note: a number assigned to a person does not necessarily mean that that person is a member of the Church. Linked records have numbers that look just like membership record numbers. The best thing to do is to simply request the record. If there is a record, it will come into your MLS within about an hour and a half.
If you use the Add Child feature on the parent's, you will create a linked record, which is not a membership record. That's how linked records are created, and usually why a child shows on one parent's IOS but not on the other parent's. If you want to see if a record was ever created for the child, request the record through MLS. If there is a record, you will get it. If not, you should talk to the parents and if both of them consent to have a record created, you may create a record for the child using the New Child of Record feature.
Note: a number assigned to a person does not necessarily mean that that person is a member of the Church. Linked records have numbers that look just like membership record numbers. The best thing to do is to simply request the record. If there is a record, it will come into your MLS within about an hour and a half.
Happy to serve