Calling all Spanish Speakers

When the Church has need of help from the technology community, we will post that need in this forum.
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WelchTC
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Postby WelchTC » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:34 am

The Earl wrote:Tom:

Is it possible that we could either get a list of translated 'church lingo', or that we could start such a list somewhere. It seems that the first step in this process is getting some of those things available.

Thanks
Barrie


It is a great idea to create a list of Church lingo. I'll add it to my list of things to do.

Tom

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WelchTC
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Postby WelchTC » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:48 am

The Earl wrote:Tom:

Can we put this out on the web at large? I assume that since a translation project would not contain member info, there would be no restriction on publishing it.

Is there a possibility of a church-hosted solution? Would a php solution work, or do you need J2EE?

Thanks
Barrie

I think that assuming this test goes well (which I am confident it will) we will create a solution and host it at the Church. Ideally I would love to get the community involved in creating the solution as well. However we do have some other software that we use in our existing translation department that we would need to interface with.

The way I see it, we would need 4 levels of translations. Some of these levels may not be used as much as others but here they are:
  1. Content to be translated by Church. For example, scriptures, general authority talks, lesson manuals, etc. The Church will want to hold on tightly to this content.
  2. Content translated by community, approved by Church. So the Church translation department would verify and approve all translations before being published.
  3. Content translated by community, approved by community. All content would go through the community at least 2 times and then sent to a community moderator to verify and decide which translations work the best.
  4. Content translated by the community without any verification. I feel that this would be used fairly infrequently but I could see it being used for things like "forum posts", etc.
Tom

Kent Larsen-p40
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Postby Kent Larsen-p40 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:58 am

tomw wrote:It is a great idea to create a list of Church lingo. I'll add it to my list of things to do.

Tom



Tom, I think you would find that many members of the Church would be very willing to participate on this also. It just seems like the translation department would already have such a list -- or at least a list that we could build from.

If such a list doesn't exist, then I think its another case where a collaborative project would be a good way of building the list.

Kent
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Kent Larsen-p40
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Postby Kent Larsen-p40 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:05 am

tomw wrote:I think that assuming this test goes well (which I am confident it will) we will create a solution and host it at the Church. Ideally I would love to get the community involved in creating the solution as well. However we do have some other software that we use in our existing translation department that we would need to interface with.


Please, please consider an open source solution!!

As I say, a web-based collaborative translation platform does not exist -- and if you are going to develop one anyway, why not help everyone instead of just the Church?

I'm not sure what you need to interface with in the translation department, but even releasing a solution without that piece would allow others to develop a replacement. And I think this would be an example of good community participation by the Church.

Kent
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Agree that Church must release proper noun translation publication

Postby miketay-p40 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:36 am

This is an interesting experiment. I agree with a lot of the posters that the Church would need to release a publication detailing translations for proper nouns and titles. As the posters have said, you can translate the same thing in different ways so it is particularly important that titles maintain consistency. For example, "Stake Technology Specialist" is a proper noun/title that I'm sure the handbook of instructions already has a translation for that should be used in any translated material, but not having readily available access to the Spanish version of the handbook of instructions would make it difficult.

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Postby thedqs » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:26 pm

I heard that the church is developing a collaborative curriculum content manager. Would the community be allowed a limited access (levels 2-4) to help in the translation?
- David

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Postby The_Earl » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:41 pm

tomw wrote:I think that assuming this test goes well (which I am confident it will) we will create a solution and host it at the Church. Ideally I would love to get the community involved in creating the solution as well. However we do have some other software that we use in our existing translation department that we would need to interface with.

The way I see it, we would need 4 levels of translations. Some of these levels may not be used as much as others but here they are:

<snip>

Tom


MediaWiki seems to be suited to this. You would either need some creative templates, or you could create a special wiki area and markup that would magically do the required replacement.

A good starting place is:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Suruena/i18n_%28en%29

Unfortunately, while LDSOSS uses MediaWiki, it does not seem current enough to like the templates (specifically Template:array) that are needed.

I might get some time to set up a sandbox, but I can't open it to the world. I'll try to get the templates built, and maybe play with custom markup or wikis. If we can get the templates set up, then comes the word lists. Documents are pretty easy after that, assuming the templates are structured correctly.

I think with a proper template system, it would not be hard to scrape the translation off the page.

What do you mean by "publish" in 1,2? If a translation is available on a public wiki site in a partial state, is that 'published'? For 3, would we vote on a translation, or just wait till it was stable? Would the wiki even be considered an official source for completed translations?

I really don't think a forum works well for this task. It makes much more sense to put it in a hierarchical structure with the original language document at the root, and the translations as children. As language translations are added, they are simply added as new children to the original document.


I'll keep hashing on this till I find something I like.
:confused:

The Earl

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LDSOSS. Wikimedia, and the Wikipedia project are not endorsed by The Church.

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charly3358-p40
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Postby charly3358-p40 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:25 pm

Kent Larsen wrote:Please, please consider an open source solution!!

As I say, a web-based collaborative translation platform does not exist -- and if you are going to develop one anyway, why not help everyone instead of just the Church?

I'm not sure what you need to interface with in the translation department, but even releasing a solution without that piece would allow others to develop a replacement. And I think this would be an example of good community participation by the Church.

Kent


I agree. We do this in Genealogy in a way by sharing the library. And with so many bilinguals due to the missionary program it may be time to expand translation to assist the globe, like the family history people do.

The church could do a lot more in 'translation science' , especially now in the 21st century.

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charly3358-p40
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Postby charly3358-p40 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:26 pm

Kent Larsen wrote:Please, please consider an open source solution!!

As I say, a web-based collaborative translation platform does not exist -- and if you are going to develop one anyway, why not help everyone instead of just the Church?

I'm not sure what you need to interface with in the translation department, but even releasing a solution without that piece would allow others to develop a replacement. And I think this would be an example of good community participation by the Church.

Kent


I agree. We do this in Genealogy in a way by sharing the library. And with so many bilinguals due to the missionary program it may be time to expand translation to assist the globe, like the family history people do.

The church could do a lot more in 'translation science' , especially now in the 21st century. :)

Kent Larsen-p40
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Postby Kent Larsen-p40 » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:47 am

The Earl wrote:MediaWiki seems to be suited to this. You would either need some creative templates, or you could create a special wiki area and markup that would magically do the required replacement.

A good starting place is:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Suruena/i18n_%28en%29

Unfortunately, while LDSOSS uses MediaWiki, it does not seem current enough to like the templates (specifically Template:array) that are needed.

I might get some time to set up a sandbox, but I can't open it to the world. I'll try to get the templates built, and maybe play with custom markup or wikis. If we can get the templates set up, then comes the word lists. Documents are pretty easy after that, assuming the templates are structured correctly.

I think with a proper template system, it would not be hard to scrape the translation off the page.



The Earl, Mediawiki seemed like the solution to me, at first, but then when I tried to set it up for another project, I couldn't make it work.

However, I recently discovered the Proofread Page extension for Mediawiki, which seems to solve the problem I saw. It gives the opportunity to put an image of text on one side of the page with a box where the text of the translation can be entered on the other side of the page.

So, if that works, we don't need an open source solution (although I still think it would be a great opportunity for the Church to contribute and help the online community -- I'm sure the mediawiki system can be improved upon -- especially by incorporating a glossary system of some kind).

Anyway, I'd love to hear from you, The Earl, if you have any experience with setting this kind of system up or know the Proofread Page extension.

Kent
Owner, LDSClerks


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