Locating who performed baptism

Discuss basic duties of stake and ward clerks, including where to begin.
famaxwell
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#11

Post by famaxwell »

RussellHltn wrote:At one time the information was recorded. They even recorded who was the proxy for temple work for the dead. But in a high-level review of chuch processes, it was dropped in a reduce & simplify move back in th 80s (iirc). It isn't critical information for the functioning of the Church. The cost is more then the storage of
information, it also includes the need to develop ways to display and update.
RussellHltn, I was writing my reply while you posted yours. So I didn't see what you wrote till just now.

Can you explain what you mean by "it also includes the need to develop ways to display and update"? I don't understand.

For instance, my ward recently received an update to an inactive member's record. The update was to the name of the person (in a different ward) who baptized and confirmed the member. So that data is included on the record at CHQ. But I still can't see that data on MLS. If I could see it on MLS, then we could try to contact that priesthood holder to get more background info about the inactive member. That could help us fellowship him.

So I think it's technically feasible to include this info, it's just not available in local MLS.
famaxwell
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#12

Post by famaxwell »

jdlessley wrote:What paper records are destroyed is determined by the need for the information. Perhaps you should counsel with your stake clerk to discuss the issues you have presented here regarding the need to preserve information. The Church is not directing you to destroy the documents you feel need to be retained. It is your local leadership who are directing this procedure.

Thanks, jdlessley. But here's the link that our stake technology clerk sent us:
https://tech.lds.org/wiki/images/b/b8/U ... 99_000.pdf

It specifically says that blessing, baptism and ordination records should be destroyed after the annual Membership Record Audit.

The reason I have misgivings about this is because I keep finding problems in the membership records in MLS. And the problems are more than 1 year old. Often the only way to solve the problem is to check the original paperwork.
russellhltn
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#13

Post by russellhltn »

famaxwell wrote:Can you explain what you mean by "it also includes the need to develop ways to display and update"? I don't understand.
If you have the information, you need to display it and be able to correct it. It adds a burden to an already limited development resource.
famaxwell wrote:For instance, my ward recently received an update to an inactive member's record. The update was to the name of the person (in a different ward) who baptized and confirmed the member.
I find that surprising. I would expect that if it was a parent, but not if the only relationship was baptism. There is a gospel principal to priesthood lineage, but there is none to "baptismal lineage".
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famaxwell
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#14

Post by famaxwell »

RussellHltn wrote:If you have the information, you need to display it and be able to correct it. It adds a burden to an already limited development resource.
Okay, that makes sense. If MLS had locked, non-editable fields, that might solve my problem.

RussellHltn wrote:I find that surprising. I would expect that if it was a parent, but not if the only relationship was baptism. There is a gospel principal to priesthood lineage, but there is none to "baptismal lineage".

The inactive member is a convert. So I don't know why CHQ had to correct the record. Maybe the priesthood holder's name was originally typed wrong. Perhaps the gospel principle is "having the records in order", which involves accuracy.
jdlessley
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#15

Post by jdlessley »

famaxwell wrote:It specifically says that blessing, baptism and ordination records should be destroyed after the annual Membership Record Audit.
Actually it says to retain the record until the next audit of membership records has been completed. That is because the audit identifies the errors in records. The errors need to be corrected before destroying the supporting documentation. If the membership record errors are not rectified before the next audit then the error is still there and the supporting documentation should be retained until the the errors are corrected. Theoretically the supporting documentation could be retained for years awaiting a correction. But hopefully the errors would have been corrected before the next audit.
JD Lessley
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greggo
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#16

Post by greggo »

7 or 8 years ago, when I was a ward and then stake clerk (previous stake), the stake was directed to complete ward/stake annual histories (I assume this is still the directive, but I haven't seen it practiced in stakes/wards I've been in since then). One of the things we were directed to include are all baptism/confirmation and PH ordinance info (including who performed the ordinance). I kept it on a simple spreadsheet and then printed for the annual history at the end of the year. These were then sent to CHQ.

If your ward/stake has done similar annual histories, theoretically, the info you seek could be somewhere in the church archives.

I for one am very grateful for the complete records that the church kept in the second half of the last century. It was the only way I was able to gather info on who ordained the brother who ordained my father to complete my PH line of authority.
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aebrown
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#17

Post by aebrown »

greggo wrote:the stake was directed to complete ward/stake annual histories (I assume this is still the directive, but I haven't seen it practiced in stakes/wards I've been in since then).

It's certainly still a requirement for every stake to submit an annual history, which includes a history for each ward. I know that different stakes put widely different levels of effort into these histories, but I'm surprised that any significant number of stakes would completely ignore this requirement.
greggo wrote: One of the things we were directed to include are all baptism/confirmation and PH ordinance info (including who performed the ordinance). I kept it on a simple spreadsheet and then printed for the annual history at the end of the year. These were then sent to CHQ.

If your ward/stake has done similar annual histories, theoretically, the info you seek could be somewhere in the church archives.

I'm not sure who gave you that direction; it's certainly not been a specific requirement (or even a suggestion) in the instructions sent by CHQ regarding preparation of histories. But that's not to say that it would be prohibited or even discouraged; I'm simply saying that it is probably a fairly rare practice, so the chance someone finding this ordinance information in the history of any particular stake is rather small. Nonetheless, if you are looking for this kind of information and haven't been able to find it elsewhere, the annual history is certainly worth a try.
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