Is donation to scout camp tax deductible?

[TinMan]

I don't see much difference either -- neither one is permitted by the policy in the handbook.

So if a young man cannot pay his own way to scout camp, it is "not permitted" for his parent to pay for him?

[aebrown]

I don't see much difference either -- neither one is permitted by the policy in the handbook.

So if a young man cannot pay his own way to scout camp, it is "not permitted" for his parent to pay for him?

Correct. The handbook is quite clear that the first option is to use budget funds. The second option is for the participant to pay his way. The third option is fundraising. There is no fourth option, but in my opinion there doesn't need to be, since the three options give the bishop plenty of latitude to make sure that every young man can attend scout camp. Note that we are also instructed: "Nor should the lack of personal funds prohibit a member from participating."

[mikepoli]

While I read this board frequently I almost never contribute, but as a father of youth and a former bishop I must say that the application of youth activity funding rules is one of the most challenging aspects of administering Church programs. I have lived in several places in the US and have family living in many more; I have yet to hear of any branch, ward or stake who runs a successful youth program while strictly following these rules. With the exception of his interpretation that parents are not permitted to pay participation fees, I generally agree that aebrown has correctly cited the policy/handbook. However, in applying the policy, it always comes down to balancing the cost versus the "quality" of certain activities, as well as the "reasonable" amount participants are asked to contribute without excluding those with fewer financial resources. My experience has been that it is often those youth who have the fewest resources or are the least likely to participate in the fundraiser who are most in need of the conference or camp experience.

I especially agree with this statement: "those with keys to interpret these policies in the specific unit involved would make the final determination". I value the things I have learned in council discussions trying to apply the rules and provide meaningful experiences for youth.

[russellhltn]

So if a young man cannot pay his own way to scout camp, it is "not permitted" for his parent to pay for him?

As a practical matter, I'd say "unenforceable". Even if the check had the parent's name on it, the youth may not have a checking account and elected to give his parents the money to cover the check.

I do think it changes how the message is communicated - that it's communicated to the youth and let them figure out how to get the money. Not to the parents unless asked.

[Gary_Miller]

While I read this board frequently I almost never contribute, but as a father of youth and a former bishop I must say that the application of youth activity funding rules is one of the most challenging aspects of administering Church programs. I have lived in several places in the US and have family living in many more; I have yet to hear of any branch, ward or stake who runs a successful youth program while strictly following these rules.

Challenging but not surmountable if the guidelines are all followed and I mean all followed. Such as, having activities are simple and have little or no cost, discouraging Long-distance travel for activities which leads to excessive expenses or travel for an annual camp or similar activity, holding most activities at the ward level, planning activities with fulfill gospel-centered purposes. and ensuring activities are planned with an accurate estimate for funds.

Its been my experience as leader of youth and as a ward finance clerk that way to many activities are not planned, not planned with a purpose, expenses are not estimated correctly. Stake level activities have excessive expenses and travel distance taking way too much funds out of wards budgets.

Its also my belief and testimony that Prophet and Quorum of the Twelve are very aware of what it cost to fund youth programs and have given guidelines in which to do so. All that needs to be done is to follow them which seems to be the problem.

[aebrown]

With the exception of his interpretation that parents are not permitted to pay participation fees, I generally agree that aebrown has correctly cited the policy/handbook.

I'm curious what part of the handbook you think I cited incorrectly. I'm always anxious to learn how my understanding can be improved, so please point me to the handbook section I'm misunderstanding.

I know that funding youth activities can be challenging. However, I've heard many leaders make statements about how there just isn't enough money to run the program properly when you follow the guidelines, but I have yet to hear of one single ward that actually tried to follow all the policies and was unable to do so.

[xmdcpa]

Amen to aebrown comment. When are leaders going to learn / be trained that the activities of the ward are to be paid for from the budget allocation, and stop allowing donations/fund raising activities that are not to occur?

[Gary_Miller]

I think one of the biggest problems is that many of the current leaders were just youth or young adults 20 years ago when the Budget Allowance was first implemented and do not fully understand the principles and the spirit of the Budget Allowance.

Maybe it would be good if the leader reviewed the original training conducted by the first presidency in 1990 on the budget allowance. The training can be found in the May 1990 Ensign Magazine.

[mhearne]

After reading this topic conversation postings (which moved from tax deductibility of Boy Scout Camp payments to fundraising/parent payment thoughts) it seems to me that there are clear guidelines -Hand Book 2 13.2.8- how Youth Activities should be funded, and how/when fundraising activities can occur. First YM/YW activities are to be paid ONLY from the Ward Budget with the ONE exception. It is clear that EXCEPTION is one fundraising activity which IS allowed only for annual Scout Camp/Girls Camp/Cub Scout Day Camp upon Bishop's authorization ONLY if Ward Budget is not sufficient (in practice for these activities the Ward Budget itself is almost never sufficient due to cost of camps), and only AFTER funds from PARTICIPANTS are not sufficient. YES fundraising ONLY for BoyScout/Girls Camp is an exception to the rule and is allowed. There are some comments (in different Topics) to effect that "fundraising" activities is not allowed

When are leaders going to learn / be trained that the activities of the ward are to be paid for from the budget allocation, and stop allowing donations/fund raising activities that are not to occur?

I believe these types of comments can be misleading, as fundraising (and donations that are connected to that fundraising activity) are allowed under specific guidelines provided. The Letter of the Law is that the authorized fundraising is the last resort (not first) - but Spirit of Law is needed to help distinguish when "If funds from participants are not sufficient" to allow Bishop to authorize a group fund-raising activity.

As for parents making payments the Letter of the Law is they should NOT. The participants SHOULD. However The Spirit of the Law allows for Parents to help the Participants to take on the responsibility to "earn" the right to attend BoyScout/Girl Scout camp which often because of their nature are expensive (even if best efforts to keep expenses low). Parents can and should help by providing ways for their youth to "earn" the payments..e.g. pay youth for extra yard work, house cleaning, washing car, babysitting, cleaning trash from side of roads, etc...and then have youth make payment to Other-AMFA account instead of parent just paying it. It seems to me that this is the way intended for Parent to help the Participant youth pay (what the Bishop ultimately decides is their share) for attending camp.

[aebrown]

There are some comments (in different Topics) to effect that "fundraising" activities is not allowed

When are leaders going to learn / be trained that the activities of the ward are to be paid for from the budget allocation, and stop allowing donations/fund raising activities that are not to occur?

I believe these types of comments can be misleading, as fundraising (and donations that are connected to that fundraising activity) are allowed under specific guidelines provided.

I agree. As long as leaders understand and follow the clear priorities of the Handbook, fundraising is allowed. Otherwise the Church leaders would never have included the sections about fundraising in the Handbook.

The Letter of the Law is that the authorized fundraising is the last resort (not first) - but Spirit of Law is needed to help distinguish when "If funds from participants are not sufficient" to allow Bishop to authorize a group fund-raising activity.

I see your point, but it actually is the Letter of the Law that you are quoting. It's a point that requires judgment as to when participant funds are sufficient, but the bishop has the keys to make that judgment.

As for parents making payments the Letter of the Law is they should NOT. The participants SHOULD. However The Spirit of the Law allows for Parents to help the Participants to take on the responsibility to "earn" the right to attend BoyScout/Girl Scout camp which often because of their nature are expensive (even if best efforts to keep expenses low). Parents can and should help by providing ways for their youth to "earn" the payments..e.g. pay youth for extra yard work, house cleaning, washing car, babysitting, cleaning trash from side of roads, etc...and then have youth make payment to Other-AMFA account instead of parent just paying it. It seems to me that this is the way intended for Parent to help the Participant youth pay (what the Bishop ultimately decides is their share) for attending camp.

As long as the youth are paying, it's wonderful for the parents to be a great support to the youth in their efforts to earn the money to pay. What is not helpful to the youth (and I would argue is actually harmful in many ways to the youth) is for the parents to simply write a check with no connection to the character-building process of working to earn your own way.