Will there will be access to schedule classes at stake level?

Beta Lesson Schedules Website feedback
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johnshaw
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#21

Post by johnshaw »

eblood66 wrote:So as valid as your points are, not every ward needs stake help so there will be a fair number of wards that can start using it. And you may be right that no Stake Clerk would say to develop it with only ward level access, but I'm sure there are quite a few ward clerks who would say, "Yes, give it to me sooner even if the Stake Clerk can't help me yet." :)
I think the real issue to me in this rollout is that it is not only too little, it is too late. We're already midway through February, I anticipate the actual rollout being March, by then we've operated 25% of the year with an older system, or a paper system. I don't anticipate adoption of the system until the start of the year next year. Maybe I'm just a downer in this, but I didn't see or read the clamor over a simple scheduling system. I haven't had anyone in my stake come to me and say, hey, we need this, when is it coming.... I do hear other things, but I'm a broken record in that area by now... Frankly without Stake-level access, what is my motivation to ensure that it gets rolled out to the wards and branches? I'd probably prefer to wait until the stake might have the access, or roll it out to begin a year.

It is disappointing that we couldn't enter 2012 with some of these systems in place (Newsletter and Scheduler), I believe with all my heart that it was the intention to provide it prior to 2012 but for many reasons beyond IT control, other areas were prioritized ahead of it.
eblood66
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#22

Post by eblood66 »

JohnShaw wrote:Frankly without Stake-level access, what is my motivation to ensure that it gets rolled out to the wards and branches? I'd probably prefer to wait until the stake might have the access, or roll it out to begin a year.
To me that's a reasonable position on the stake level. Actually, I doubt our ward will use this any time soon. Most people in my ward just don't go on-line to get information. But I'm glad to be able to play with it and I'm glad that others will start using it. With that feedback hopefully it will be useful for all units sooner.
JohnShaw wrote:It is disappointing that we couldn't enter 2012 with some of these systems in place (Newsletter and Scheduler), I believe with all my heart that it was the intention to provide it prior to 2012 but for many reasons beyond IT control, other areas were prioritized ahead of it.

I'm pretty sure that most of the reason is that the calendar system took longer than expected and it was (rightfully in my opinion) a higher priority.
mtwerner
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#23

Post by mtwerner »

lajackson wrote:According to the curriculum guidelines, Sunday School is scheduled at the ward level. The stake schedules the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Sunday priesthood and Relief Society lessons (although the stake has the option of delegating the 4th Sunday to the bishop).

Where exactly in the curriculum guidelines does it say this? I just looked through the "Instructions for Curriculum 2012" and can't find anything like that. As a stake clerk I've been unhappy ever since the Church shifted the responsibility for Sunday School to the wards. In my stake the wards are all on the same schedule for Gospel Doctrine. The priesthood/Relief Society lessons get shifted around because of ward conferences; however, since those are set on the stake level, there's no way to customize the schedule for each ward. In addition, we allow the bishoprics to choose the topics for half the Teachings for Our Time lessons, but they have no way of posting what those topics are. So my preference, if there must be a "separation of powers," would be for the stake to administer Sunday School and the wards to administer priesthood/Relief Society (with direction from the stake, of course). I realize that may not work for all stakes, so it would help if the stake could select which way it works--though I realize that would significantly increase the complexity of the system.
russellhltn
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#24

Post by russellhltn »

mtwerner wrote:Where exactly in the curriculum guidelines does it say this? I just looked through the "Instructions for Curriculum 2012" and can't find anything like that.

From page 6 (emphasis added):
Second and Third Sundays.

If stake conferences or other meetings preclude the teaching of one of these lessons, stake presidents and bishops decide if it should be taught on another Sunday.
It seems unlikely the stake president would have any decision power unless the stake set the schedule in the first place. It would certainly complicate it if wards were on different lessons.
Fourth Sunday —Teachings for Our Time.

The stake president or bishop selects the talks.
That seems pretty clear.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

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mtwerner
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#25

Post by mtwerner »

Sorry, I should have only quoted the first sentence. I've never seen anything that says Sunday School is scheduled at the ward level.
russellhltn
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#26

Post by russellhltn »

I think the same quotes will show that the ward can/does do some adjustments of the stake schedule.
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jdcr256
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#27

Post by jdcr256 »

JohnShaw wrote:I doubt there is a Stake Clerk in the church that would say... ya... develop it so that only ward clerks have access.

Believe it or not, in our quest to simplify the app, the strongest advocate for leaving stake admin out is indeed a stake clerk.

The bottom line is, schedules change. Teachers get sick, team teachers prepare the wrong lesson on the wrong week, Bishops (and yes, Stake Presidents) get inspiration and decide a certain lesson should be taught at a certain time. The schedule changes for all kinds of reasons. The closer an admin is to the class, the more likely the schedule will be updated to remain relevant. If the schedule isn't relevant, no one will use it, so what's the point anyway.

In cutting corners to fit our resources, we decided to support the people who could best maintain the schedule first (ward and auxiliary leaders). Are there really good reasons to support Stake admin, absolutely. It just didn't fit in the 1.0 release, so we had to push it off for later.
mtwerner
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#28

Post by mtwerner »

What I'm getting at is that someone made what I consider an arbitrary decision to have Sunday School lessons entered by the wards and the priesthood/Relief Society lessons entered by the stake. There's no basis in any directives for doing that, and it doesn't work for us, as I already explained.

Besides, the information you quoted said that bishops can also decide on adjustments to lesson schedules--but the way it's set up, they can't change priesthood/Relief Society lessons at all. As I mentioned, the wards should be able to edit their Teachings for Our Time lessons. It could also be helpful for the wards to be able to customize first-Sunday lessons and bishopric lessons, but right now that's not even an option.

So I guess I should be grateful that in the new lesson scheduler everything is on the ward level, though in the past even getting our wards to enter the Sunday School lessons was like pulling teeth.
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AileneRHerrick
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#29

Post by AileneRHerrick »

jdcr256 wrote:The closer an admin is to the class, the more likely the schedule will be updated to remain relevant.
This is the primary reason I like the new scheduler the way you rolled it out. Thank you.
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johnshaw
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#30

Post by johnshaw »

The real issue we're dealing with is that the team building the app is under a short deadline with limited resources. Admittedly the team needed to find ways to 'cut it short' - with that, it makes sense to roll it out the way it is. To my thinking I'm fine with it, but it seems more urgent if we were trying to make a 2012 deadline to start the year with the solution in place, but now that we're already into the year, why the need to 'cut it short'? Why not develop it fully, roll it out a bit later?

Again though, why not roll it out to the stake units as well, they are just another unit... let us get some experience with the app also so we can help train, I realize you'd have to have an ad-hoc type of training, but maybe all we need is to have the stake unit have the ability to do something like the Family History Class, or the Temple Preparation Class, the non-standard, non-weekly typical classes that are offered at the ward level, but sometimes at the stake level.
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