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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:17 am
sammythesm wrote:That's easy. It's because no one wants to offend anyone else. It's the same reason why, in Sunday School, when the crazy brother opens his mouth and starts spouting false doctrine, the teacher is supposed to say "thank you for your thoughts" and move on, rather than saying "that's just wrong and you are crazy."
But back on a technological note, for me, maintaining secrecy around the WiFi password is just a losing battle. We rotate out clerks, bishopric counselors, and ward council members (people with a legitimate need to know the password) so frequently that after a year or two, more than half the ward would have the "secret" password.
I haven't observed any real detriment to our building connectivity, or any new obsession with checking handheld devices during Sacrament Meeting. I think most members have a good sense of what is appropriate use and what is not.
Also - there's a real benefit to the non technical user with being able to walk into any church building anywhere and have your mobile just link right up to the wireless.
This password thing will resolve itself once we have the captive portal/LDSAccount authentication later this year, so I don't think it's really worth worrying about.
THANK YOU! Finally someone with a real answer! I guess I was raised by parents who would tell me when something I was about to do or was doing was wrong and/or told me "no". I really feel that sometimes we all need to be told no as part of our journey thru life and its learning experiences. As for the Wifi password... I have gotten to the point of indifference these days. We tech people cannot become the building "internet police". I have asked, begged my leadership for direction regarding the church internet resources with no direction given period. ( not a yes or no, just ignored) I am guessing so as not to offend me... Little do they know, this would not offend me, I was looking for honest to goodness help and direction my skin is pretty thick so to speak. It would seem that persons who proceeded me in the IT calling, pretty much did nothing and let everyone tinker, configure and use the Church computers for everything imaginable. I honestly see why, no one gets told no. When my calling was explained to me, I was told that people had prayed to see if I was the person for the calling or not. So, with that said, I have taken this calling pretty seriously and because of that, have met with some who now just don't like me at all. Thank heavens, this is just in one of my buildings. These same people are into everything, IT cabinet, computers, rather than tell him "NO" he received $8500 worth of new equipment for his family history center, that seldome gets used. (for family history work anyway.) (4 new Lenovo all in ones) I asked the Salt Lake networking people to check on this FHC's internet usage. The History files on these machines showed they were being used for everything under the sun.... rather than saying "no", the Salt lake people told me, "they were seeing exactly what they expect to see"...that is what they expect to see... I find that really sad. Your kidding me, this is what we expect our FHC's to get used for?
As for the new login system, it really does not matter to me either way. We can always just call and get another 100 or so allowed connections added and everything is fine again, right?..lol..remember, they won't tell me no. My personal opinion... I have so many hours, my own money and travel time involved here in installing all the new equipment, troubleshooting and making sure my buildings have excellent Wifi coverage, the greatest feeling of accomplishment for me is to see the system getting used to the fullest! Problem is, no one ever says anything unless it don't work.
I hope I don't get banned from this forum because of this... If this is a problem, just feel free to remove this post. Feel free to just say no.
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:45 am
dfdavis wrote:...I have asked, begged my leadership for direction regarding the church internet resources with no direction given period. ( not a yes or no, just ignored) I am guessing so as not to offend me... Little do they know, this would not offend me, I was looking for honest to goodness help and direction my skin is pretty thick so to speak...
Your mileage may vary, but with my Stake Presidency, I find they are looking for me to give them guidance more than they want to give me guidance in matters of policy. Sure, the church has established, concrete policies - we follow those - but when there is a decision to be made at the Stake level, they want me to give them information and a recommendation. Then we make a decision and move forward. Your experience here may not be because they don't want to offend, it may be because they didn't understand or are looking to you to help sort it out for them. Of all the things occupying a SP's time, our type of technology problems are often the lowest priority problem.
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:02 am
sammythesm wrote:Your mileage may vary, but with my Stake Presidency, I find they are looking for me to give them guidance more than they want to give me guidance in matters of policy. Sure, the church has established, concrete policies - we follow those - but when there is a decision to be made at the Stake level, they want me to give them information and a recommendation. Then we make a decision and move forward. Your experience here may not be because they don't want to offend, it may be because they didn't understand or are looking to you to help sort it out for them. Of all the things occupying a SP's time, our type of technology problems are often the lowest priority problem.
This is exactly what I did in my Stake. I created a policy document, by following examples created by and used by other members posted on this forum. I then submitted this to the Stake Presidency for amendment/approval.
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:04 pm
For our Stake, we simply change the password every 6 months, and the SSID and Password is the same for all buildings. The stake president sends a letter to each Bishop and Branch President with instructions to give the password to only those that need it. It is changed every 6 months to ensure only those with current callings that need it, get it. We don't want Sacrament Meeting Browsing....We also include this policy in the letter to the bishops:
1. Purpose of Internet Access. Internet access is provided to users in compliance to policy, as a tool to accomplish their work. Incidental and occasional use of Church IT systems for personal use is permitted and will be managed the same as other business usage.
2. Consistency with Church Worthiness Standards. All activities and conduct use of the Internet must maintain the highest standards associated with the sacred nature of the Church's work and mission. Inappropriate use may lead to disciplinary action.
3. No Privacy Expectation for Internet Access. Internet browsing through Church systems is filtered, monitored, logged and reported on a regular basis. The ability to connect to a specific website does not itself imply that users are permitted to visit that site. Users should have no expectation of privacy when accessing the Internet through any application or device.
Please insure that these policies are abided by. Access to the Internet is a privilege, use caution. Misuse may deny the privilege to all.
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:09 pm
Same story here. With the new firewalls we can't control the password so I've pretty much just gone to not worrying about it and looking forward to the LDS Account vpn.
Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:10 pm
In our stake, the stake presidency told the password to the stake council, then instructed them "you are not authorized to give it to anyone else" - you need to send others to the stake presidency if others feel they need access. This Bishops were given the password with permission to give it to others as they felt needed access, but "not authorized to give it to any youth".
We are not so ignorant as to think some won't give it out, but at least they have someone else to be the bad guy when they say no.
We have 881W & 1041N's for wireless, but also have a small home style wifi with an differnet password (managed by me) that can be checked out by wards and plugged in for short time periods (mutual activity, sunday school class, etc.). This allows easy general access as needed without giving everyone the password.
When the LDS account access is implemented I'm hopeful it will be a good solution.
Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:05 am
Coming soon, this will not be an issue. There is a new Roll Out that is coming soon, that will allow ecclesiastical leadership to control who can use the WiFi in the building. Users will log in to the WiFi using LDS Account. In the mean time, the problem lies in the fact that many buildings simply do not have the bandwidth to allow everyone to share the internet connection, and still maintain functionality to complete the needed transactions by the clerks.
Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:50 am
Our Stake President decided when it first became an option there would be no WIFI in any of our buildings at this time. We are authorized to bring in a Router for a temporary class and hook it to the network with password access but it must be turned off after the immediate use. Anyone who absolutely must have internet access for a class is advised to use one of the rooms that are hard-wired. I have a long ethernet cable in the Clerk's office that we can use to get the wired signal where it needs to be.
It has become common knowledge that one end of the building is close enough to a local store that folks can hop on to their wireless signal. That is NOT sanctioned nor encouraged by our Bishopric, but for some reason certain individuals prefer to have their classes in the Nursery...
Missing the Mark?
Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:12 pm
I find the discussion of limiting access very interesting, I have to wonder to myself, why? Why the need to control who and what? Why impose some kind of policy that a Sunday School teacher has to follow to get a mormon message to teach a class?
Nibley observed MANY years ago a trend that he thought would be detrimental to the Church, and that is transition from leaders to managers. He observed that managers want to control, Leaders what to provide the tools necessary to get the work done, a manager insists on his/her tool, or nothing, etc...
The history of the church and media is very progressive, how early did the Church adopt radio? TV? Satellite? The Church Leaders KNEW that delivering their message directly into the hearts of their members was and continues to be the force behind making decisions related to media and content delivery. The Church even bought up Radio Stations/TV Stations, why? so they could encrypt their broadcasts so only Stake Presidencies or Bishoprics could get their messages? Of course not. They wanted the messages delivered into the hearts of the people. When they couldn't do that, they produced media content (tapes) to deliver so the messages could be heard. When it became easier or less expensive to make sure their content could be delivered through a 3rd parthy, they divested of those assets, choosing to purchase services rather than keep capital expenses.
We rob our members of choice experiences every week if Sunday School, Primary, Nursery, Youth Leaders, RS, EQP, HPGL are unable to take advantage of media content on the Internet. I don't know about your wards, but in mine, that's a lot of people that aren't in leadership callings. Generally they've made Temple Covenants, or at least Baptism covenants, what good is a policy saying don't do this, don't do that, haven't they already committed to that? Didn't the arguably 2nd wisest man ever on the earth tell a reporter, when responding to a question about control.... Well, "I teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves". If abuse happens, as it will, then remedy it...
The Church Leaders have made an implicit decision, They have provided the content, it is there, it is consumable. If any of you out there are familiar with the concept 'Consumerization of IT' and study it, you'll know that our lives are changing, heck, I remember a couple years back, sitting in the Dubai Airport, on a FREE Internet Connection, using SKYPE to interview 3 candidates for jobs in Abu Dhabi on a team I was assembling. One interview was in Australia, one in the UK, and one in India. I can IM with a buddy across the world in seconds. Right now I'm at work, I'm spending 15 minutes typing this message, earlier today I typed up a Priority list for technology needs in our stake for an upcoming FM Budget meeting. Tonight at home, I'll likely spend 30 minutes reviewing email and arranging my next day..... Life is changing... no longer is life 8-5 work, 5-10 family --> it has changed, life is now work 15min, family 5min, work 2 hrs, church 15 min, work 4 hours, talk to a friend on facebook for 10 minutes, drive home....
In this evolution, access to the internet is the assumption, not the exception. Members expect this now just like they expect the building to have lights, or heat and/or AC. Rather than enter this age kicking and screaming, I think we should embrace it. Send out policies that say, USE the Internet in the buildings, it is provided for you to teach each other the gospel, use it for good, find the names of your ancestors, do their work. Study the Scriptures, update Personal progress, mark your scriptures.
At work, Often, I am asked to find the 'next thing' What changes do we make to position ourselves to take advantage of what's coming. We want to be ahead of what Gartner is saying is 'this year's hottest things in IT' our mandate is to yawn at that prospect. I am often drawn to showing my colleagues the church Internet Presence. How many members of the church truly understand that we're living in cloud services ville in the church... MyStudy Notebook, Internet - cross platform - Mobile, synch and access.... It's there... why would the church spend MILLIONS just to have intermediaries LIMIT what people can do. I am sad for a culture like that. I am SAD for FM who aren't able to adjust, I am SAD for Leaders who spend so much time thinking about ways to limit access, mostly I am sad for members who aren't able to fulfill their callings well because of limitations imposed on them.
Yes it is true that this message applies to the developed world more than it does to the underdeveloped world. did you know that there are over 6 billion individual lines of service for mobile phones? that's twice the number of computers in the world. The underdeveloped countries can take advantage of the Church cloud, isn't that interesting
Yes it is true this assumes Internet Connectivity is better than what many have. Get with it... Convince FM to up the lines, show the value, get better connections viva La Revolution! Take back FM, take back their mystic, cryptic process, bring it into the light!
Yes it is true this assumes many other things, but the thoughts are general and not specific, it is a general culture shift that needs to take place, once the culture shift is changed, the specifics for your ward/stake can be figured out. BTW, the LEADERS in the Church have already accepted that culture change, it is mid-level management that needs to get out of the way or be left behind.
Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:34 pm
JohnShaw wrote:I find the discussion of limiting access very interesting, I have to wonder to myself, why? Why the need to control who and what? Why impose some kind of policy that a Sunday School teacher has to follow to get a mormon message to teach a class?
I think your answer can be found two posts above:
bspage wrote:In the mean time, the problem lies in the fact that many buildings simply do not have the bandwidth to allow everyone to share the internet connection, and still maintain functionality to complete the needed transactions by the clerks.
I might change that from "needed transactions by the clerks" to "needed transactions". Why should a member showing a friend a video in the foyer disrupt the video being shown to the Sunday School? (since they are both videos, there's no way to prioritize between the two).
At this point, the bulk of the internet use for the church in a church building is by the leaders and teachers - not the rank and file members.
Once you hand out the password for an approved use, it's hard to take it back.