Ordinance Certificate before ordinance entered

[jgamber]

This past Sunday our membership clerk printed some certificates for the following ordinances that were performed:

• Priest Ordination
• Teacher Ordination
• Baptism and Confirmation

Later in the evening I was running the Interview/Action report and noticed the names of the individuals were on these reports. I went into MLS today and noticed that the ordinances had not been entered into MLS however the membership clerk was able to print the certificates for the ordinances. I have yet to speak w/ him but I assume he just went into the print cert function instead of entering the ordinances then printing the certificates.

I would think MLS would block the priniting of the certificates if the ordinance had not been entered. Anyone else have this issue?

[aebrown]

I'm not sure why MLS allows certificates to be printed without the ordinance being recorded. I suppose there's some obscure scenario where it might be helpful, but it does seem risky to allow it. An ordinance is not complete until it has been recorded (meaning that it is entered in MLS and transmitted successfully to CHQ).

But for now, this is simply a training issue. It's much easier to print a certificate after the ordinance is recorded (there's less information to enter), which is another reason the membership clerk should be taught to always record the ordinance first.

[eblood66]

I'm not sure why MLS allows certificates to be printed without the ordinance being recorded. I suppose there's some obscure scenario where it might be helpful, but it does seem risky to allow it. An ordinance is not complete until it has been recorded (meaning that it is entered in MLS and transmitted successfully to CHQ).

I've known stakes, especially before the stake could record Melchizedek priesthood ordinations, where they printed the certificate for Melchizedek ordinations beforehand and then delivered it to the person immediately following the ordination. That way the person had proof of the ordination even if the ward didn't record it. Since the Handbook says the certificate is sufficient proof of ordination by itself (CHI 1 16.1.10) the ordination could easily be recorded later (even in a different unit) if somebody dropped the ball.

I suppose there could also be other situations where a leader wants to provide the certificate immediately. However, having said that, I think most cases where the certificate is printed first happen with new clerks who haven't figured out how to record an ordinance correctly. So it would probably be beneficial to have a warning dialog in that situation which directs the clerk to the correct procedure (like MLS does when making a name change).

[ffrsqpilot]

As the stake clerk, I routinely print up a certificate for Melchizedek Priesthood ordinations prior to the actual ordination....but let me explain why. I only do this when we are doing the ordinations during stake conferences. I already have the form in hand after it has been signed by the Bishop/Branch President and Stake President. I hand a copy of the form (letter) and the certificate (signed by the Stake President) to the High Councilman who will be officiating at the ordination. Once the ordination is complete, the High Councilman signs the certificate and hands it to the individual. I then get the MP form back from the High Councilman at which time I enter the ordination into MLS. If the ordination doesn't take place then I get both the form and the certificate back and wait until the ordination does take place.

We do it this way because we have a large stake area here in Western Colorado. Prior to the stake clerk being able to enter the ordination it often took up to several weeks to get the appropritate unit clerk to enter the ordination. Holding on to the certificate until entered and then sending it may be okay but I had instances where the certificate was lost in the mail and the individual never got it.

However, I do agree that within a given unit (ward/branch) waiting until the ordination takes place might be a good way to go....but once again, if the certificate is printed beforehand, it does make it nice to have ready for the individual (and as a side note, I always gave certificates to the mother as they usually take care of it better than the youngster). If the certificate is printed beforehand it does incur some responsibility on the part of the individual member of the ward/branch leadership to ensure the ordination took place and gets back to the clerk.

May or may not work for others, but it has worked at least for me to do it this way.

[jgamber]

I do like the idea of having the certificate ready when the ordinance is actually peformed. Thanks for the thoughts!