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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:43 pm
by johnshaw
aebrown wrote:I'm curious -- have you seen OS updates being sent to these systems via LANDesk or TEM since you installed 64-bit Windows on them? If you have, that would make me feel a lot better about running 64-bit Windows. If not, that would validate the concerns about the Church being able to manage updates on such systems.
I don't recall running security updates for a while now on clerk computers, I'll check the specific computer in our ward building that I know has 64 bit. As I understand it, the church's management of systems modifies the Windows update to use a WSUS server maintained by the Church, rather than going over the Internet to the Microsoft site.

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:00 am
by johnshaw
Mikerowaved wrote:It's not by accident that EVERY Windows 7 PC arriving from Dell is configured with the 32-bit version. This is the way CHQ requested from Dell that they all be delivered. And as far as I know, CHQ has not given any of us permission to change the OS from the way they were originally setup (unless they arrived with XP installed, but had a valid Windows 7 COA). If you were able to obtain permission from CHQ to install a 64-bit OS, I would be very interested in learning about it.
I think this is exactly the point of the thread. The original question was, IS there any reason not to install the 64-bit OS? - look at the original post, that was the question. All the information in the post indicated there is no licensing issue. The recent Tech Talk on clerk computer the Desktop Management Team indicated there was no issues if your computer came with XP to load Windows 7 (as long as the licensing valid). The STS has a perfectly legitimate reason for wanting to install 64-bit, and asked the question. I hope the Desktop team will answer the question.
Call the Global Service Center and ask them directly if there is any problem with you changing Windows 7 to 64-bit on some of the administrative computers in your stake. If they ask you to change them back (as sjager did a few posts back, who, BTW, happens to work as a Product Manager for Church Desktop Hardware and Software), I would think that would be reason enough to do so without any further explanation.
sjager's message was about upgrading from XP to Windows 7 without the proper licensing, and that it is the Desktop Management Team's opinion that the use of Budget funds to upgrade the OS from XP to Windows 7 is not a wise use of those funds. I do not believe the comment answered the 64-bit question specifically, if it was meant to then I think it lacked the necessary detail. I am in the process of moving our computers to Windows 7 (as the Desktop Management Team indicated in the Tech Talk) and would like to have the answer clarified as well, because I am currently using a 64-bit Windows 7 for my 'default image'. I'm not sure about others experience with 64-bit Windows 7, but I will admit to having issues during the beta 3 years ago, enough that I went back to the 32 bit version, due to some overseas travel that required a more stable platform, but I've been running a 64-bit desktop for a couple of years now without issues, I can't recall a single application issue I've had - which I guess in my mind is why I naturally went to the 64-bit platform for my image. If there is operational concerns or reasons not to run the 64-bit version I will gladly redo my new image with 32-bit, that is fairly simple for me - but - I am proactive by nature and when I put effort into a project that is intended to be a computer system a unit uses for the next 4 years, I want to implement the best performing, most highly resilient system to the units I support.
Let's not forget, we are just stewards. These computers are owned by the church and they are free to dictate to us exactly how they would like them configured
I agree and with you would like to have the Windows 7 install guide published so I know what their direction is.

As a note, there has been an assumption in this thread, it seems to me, that some STS out there are rogues going about the best they can to do whatever they want, whenever they want, at least the use of all caps, bold, and underline in threads seems to indicate a little dissatisfaction with others actions. In my callings I want to be efficient, and productive with my time. I create an image for our clerk computers because it is generally the best way to support them, they are all configured the same way, I have the same support utilities on them, etc.. and when an issue happens, I know that I can have a machine rebuilt much quicker than putting a DVD in and running through setup. All of these things server a purpose in magnifying my calling, providing a good work environment for the units, and more time with my family. It seems to me that it should be a model for others to replicate. This entire discussion was prompted by the Desktop Management Team's recent Tech Talk, nothing else, the fact remains, the only real question here is whether running 64-bit is operationally going to interfere with the management systems in place by the Desktop Management Team.

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:41 am
by johnshaw
I've now updated about 7 clerk computers in my stake to my new Windows 7 64 bit image. I wanted to throw out a couple of lessons learned from this experience, they both involve driver issues.

First, Many of us likely are using Wireless Adapters for our clerk computers, and many of those are likely still Wireless G adapters, these drivers are not always supported or if they are no networking exists on the computer to download them from the Internet until after the drivers is installed causing an eternal loop. Linksys, particularly, does not have drivers for 64 bit. There are some work arounds, so far, I've been able to get everything installed.

Secondly, Printers are often in the same predicament, our stake is as diverse in its printers as I can imagine, I think out of 14 computers we probably have 10 different model printers (this was due to prior Clerk/STS not knowing policies and purchasing printers out of stake budgets rather than getting FMG to replace them). So, again, the caution, obtain the drivers if you can, or really know what you are doing, be prepared with another printer you know works if available.

Suggestion: If you are going to image a computer or install Windows 7 64 bit - it would be wise to pre-obtain the 64bit drivers, or if you can, install a few on the image prior to doing the sysprep. I've found that most Vista 64bit drivers can be made to work in the 64bit, or you can find the actual manufacturer of the chipset and get their drivers. If you have having trouble locating some, you can PM me and I may be able to help find something.

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:30 pm
by johnshaw
Lessons learned post regarding Windows 7 64 bit... please see the other thread here ... -supported

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:05 am
by aclawson
Where are people getting the image for windows 7? I would much prefer to replace the XP installations but was not even remotely considering doing it as there is no justification to purchase several new licenses. If the church has an enterprise license and an .iso to obtain I would not hesitate to do that to squeeze whatever life I can get out of these machines.

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:12 pm
by Mikerowaved
aclawson wrote:Where are people getting the image for windows 7? I would much prefer to replace the XP installations but was not even remotely considering doing it as there is no justification to purchase several new licenses. If the church has an enterprise license and an .iso to obtain I would not hesitate to do that to squeeze whatever life I can get out of these machines.
The operating systems we are referring to are the OEM versions that are included in the price of the PC when they are purchased from Dell. If your PCs have the Windows XP COA "sticker", then it is highly recommended you stay with that and NOT spend any money for Windows 7. When your old PCs are eventually replaced, the new ones will arrive with Windows 7 Professional 32-bit pre-installed.

This discussion has mainly been whether it's OK to upgrade these newer systems to Windows 7 Professional 64-bit, as the Microsoft license agreement currently supports either version with the same license key found on the COA sticker. In other words, it's technically legal to perform the upgrade, but does the church want us to do this on our own?

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:31 pm
by aclawson
I'll have to double check, but I thought that the Lenovos were coming with 64 bit.

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:45 pm
by sammythesm
I'd just like to add 0.02. Sorry for reviving the old thread...

I was asked to look into why a certain NEW computer was having performance issues for a clerk. As I systematically picked apart the system, one thing I noticed was that it was only utilitzing 3GB of the 4GB of RAM that it came from the factory with. Why? Because of 32-bit Windows. The newest Dells (Optiplex 580) can have up to 16GB of RAM installed, but Win 7 32-bit will only recognize the first 3GB.

This is just one more major reason the church should be shipping these with 64-bit windows rather than 32-bit. Since these machines stay in service for a good long time, I see no reason we should be hampering them out of the gate.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:31 am
by Mikerowaved
sammythesm thing I noticed was that it was only utilitzing 3GB of the 4GB of RAM that it came from the factory with. Why? Because of 32-bit Windows. ... Win 7 32-bit will only recognize the first 3GB.

While I don't disagree with your findings (it's a well known limitation of most 32-bit OS's), I would be interested to learn if this was really the cause of the slow behavior. With the typical setups I'm familiar with on church computers, the memory usage is nowhere near 3GB.