Page 1 of 1

HP Isn't Really a HP

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:05 pm
by ckmcdonald
Keeping the story short - just let it be said that we have an inactive elderly man in our ward for which his membership record says he was ordained a HP in 1996 - but reasonable evidence exists that he was not, that this recording of ordination, along with a couple of other inactive men in the quorum at the time, was incorrectly recorded by an inexperienced Membership Clerk that was simply trying to tag them as being grouped under the HP quorum.

Recently, I discussed this with the man who was Bishop of the ward in 1996 and he is 99% sure the ordination never occurred and when the other men that were incorrectly recorded as HPs were corrected this man was overlooked and not correct as it should have been.

I'd like to correct this (if needed) but I'm not sure how to proceed. The member in question is an avid do-not-contact so I'm unable to get help from him personally.

Is there a set criteria for which I can determine we have ascertained he was not ordained? And if so, what is the process of removing the HP designation from his membership?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:47 am
by russellhltn
Good question. I'd start with Handbook 1, but I'm not sure as anything there address the situation. You might try to find some parallels with how to deal with a ordinance that wasn't recorded (the opposite situation).

Failing that, I'd contact Local Unit Support. If the process is done though MLS, I'd think it would be a special request. But I'd talk to LUS ahead of time to see what evidence you might need to present in the message.

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:27 am
by ckmcdonald
The last thing I want to do is remove a HP designation that IS correct. I feel it is much better to leave it as-is (potentially wrong) if I can't prove it is wrong.

Presently, I pursuing two efforts to help resolve this issue. The first is to see if I can find any other witnesses, in addition to the Bishop at the time, that can state whether the ordination occurred or not. With a little (a lot?) of luck I can find and contact the Bishop's Counselors, the HPGL and Ward Clerk at the time and see if they remember.

The second is to see if CHQ tracks past changes to individual records. One of the other men who incorrectly was designated as being a HP at that time in 1996 is still in our ward. His record was corrected some time after the mistake was made and today he is not designated as a HP. But, if CHQ retained the date the incorrect designation was made, and it matches the date of the designation in question, that will be a strong clue it was made in error also because I know several where incorrectly recorded the same day.

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:34 am
by jaj78
What about finding out who was recorded as performing the ordination, and checking with him? I'm not sure where that record is kept (local MLS, stake records, etc), but I would expect a phone call to SLC from a clerk to search/validate the ordination would be respected.

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:33 am
by russellhltn
ckmcdonald wrote:The second is to see if CHQ tracks past changes to individual records.

From past conversations with LUS, I believe they do. They certainly have more information then what appears in MLS.

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:58 pm
by ckmcdonald

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:03 pm
by ckmcdonald

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:39 am
by lajackson
ckmcdonald wrote:The field on his record stating who performed the ordination is blank.

There was a time during the 1990s when the person performing the ordination was not recorded on the membership record. That has since changed, but is probably the reason the name is not there for an ordination that may (or may not) have happened during those years.