Different Time Zone issue

Discussions about the Calendar Tool at lds.org. Questions about the calendar on the classic site should be posted in the LUWS forum.
jdlessley
Community Moderators
Posts: 8877
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:30 am
Location: USA, TX

#11

Post by jdlessley »

While I was composing post #10 I did not see posts #7 - #9. But I think this can also be addressed through programming. It requires an additional input during event creation to identify the event location time zone if different from event creator's home ward location time zone. And it requires additional display information that tells the viewer of the time zone difference between the event location time zone and the home ward location time zone. There are two options that I can think of right now. Display space comes in to play for both. So that is a consideration on a calendar that already has to deal with limited display real estate issues.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the ChurchofJesusChrist.org Help Center?
russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 31960
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

#12

Post by russellhltn »

lajackson wrote:Until, of course, the stake has a youth activity in another city. I just don't think the programmers can win on this one. [grin]
How is that being handled now? In Calender 1.0? Or how was it handled in the days of paper calendars?

I'm not sure as the answer is all that complex.


It's interesting that so far there's not one defender of the existing situation. I can think of another problem - mobile phones. Typically they get their time information from the cell tower. If you're close to the border of the time zone, it could be off. And the user may not be aware what time zone their phone is currently operating in.

Just to repeat what jdlessley said:
When I travel and I am planning to attend an event for my ward I think of the event time in reference to the location the event is going to occur and not in reference to the time in the time zone I am physically in.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
User avatar
aebrown
Community Administrator
Posts: 15138
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Sandy, Utah

#13

Post by aebrown »

RussellHltn wrote:It's interesting that so far there's not one defender of the existing situation. I can think of another problem - mobile phones. Typically they get their time information from the cell tower. If you're close to the border of the time zone, it could be off. And the user may not be aware what time zone their phone is currently operating in.

I guess you weren't paying attention to my posts on this topic. Although I can certainly understand why some people might not like some aspects of how it works now, I think it is the only possible way for it to work, if you have to choose a time zone to display based on the information currently available (time zone of the buildings involved, and time zone of the device you're viewing the calendar on). I could see some potential for jdlessley's suggestion that an additional time zone selector be provided in the user interface.

My argument is based on a couple of key points:
  • This is the way Google Calendar, Outlook and a wide variety of other widely-used calendars work. Events are stored in UTC, and are displayed using the time zone of the device you are viewing the calendar on. I don't understand why people think the LDS.org calendar should be different from these very popular calendaring systems.
  • Synchronization will synchronize the actual UTC time of the events. And mobile phones in particular (one of the main use cases for sync) will usually automatically change the time zone on the device. It makes no sense for a synced calendar to try to maintain a different time zone for events, when those events will almost certainly be displayed alongside other events on the mobile device that are stored in UTC and displayed in the current time zone of the device.
RussellHltn wrote:Just to repeat what jdlessley said:
When I travel and I am planning to attend an event for my ward I think of the event time in reference to the location the event is going to occur and not in reference to the time in the time zone I am physically in.
For me, it depends on the event. If I am going to physically attend it, I might agree. But I disagree if it impacts me in a different way; e.g., I am calling in to a presidency meeting, or I'm thinking of calling home, but looking at my calendar shows me that my family is at the ward activity.
Questions that can benefit the larger community should be asked in a public forum, not a private message.
RBeatse
Member
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:47 am

#14

Post by RBeatse »

aebrown wrote:I don't understand why people think the LDS.org calendar should be different from these very popular calendaring systems.

I'll try once to explain why I, at least, think it should be different and then I'll give up (or at least I'll try to give up):

On your mobile device, things like Google calendar and Outlook and such change the times because the central piece that you are scheduleing (yourself) is changing time zones. I make a calendar entry to go call someone at 6PM and it changes the time to match where the central feature (me), changes time zones so that the call still happens at 6 PM.

Here, though, the central figure to be schedule is not me. It is a building and that building is not changing time zones. So we are saying, when I schedule something to be at 6PM to the Central figure (the building), then that building's schedule should not change. If you want to say that it should display the time based on my device's clock, then fine (though others have said it shouldn't do that either). But, the time scheduled should be based on the time in the location where the building is becuase it is the thing being scheduled, not me.

I know when I look at a building calendar that says the meeting is at 7PM, I assume that means in Salt Lake (for me) and I can adjust the time based on wherever I am.

Ultimately though, you seem pretty passionate about it and so since you're the moderator, I guess you win regardless of how much everyone else thinks there needs to be a change.
User avatar
aebrown
Community Administrator
Posts: 15138
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Sandy, Utah

#15

Post by aebrown »

RBeatse wrote:Ultimately though, you seem pretty passionate about it and so since you're the moderator, I guess you win regardless of how much everyone else thinks there needs to be a change.

I don't see how that comment is warranted. If you review the thread, you'll see that three other people have chimed in (all moderators or administrators), and they pretty much agree with you. I certainly appreciate the opinions you are sharing, and I think you have a good point when you note the perspective of the building being scheduled rather than a person. That argument doesn't change my mind when I weigh it against the totality of the factors, but it's certainly a good argument.

Besides, none of us controls the development of the Calendar application -- we're just expressing our own opinions. So I really don't understand your "I guess you win" comment.
Questions that can benefit the larger community should be asked in a public forum, not a private message.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 31960
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

#16

Post by russellhltn »

RBeatse wrote:so since you're the moderator, I guess you win regardless of how much everyone else thinks there needs to be a change.

We're more like the member clean-up crew that cleans the chapel on Saturdays. We do some work to help out the "FM Group". We hold some sway because we're active and been here awhile, but not as much as our titles might suggest.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
RBeatse
Member
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:47 am

#17

Post by RBeatse »

aebrown wrote:I don't see how that comment is warranted. If you review the thread, you'll see that three other people have chimed in (all moderators or administrators), and they pretty much agree with you.
My apologies. It was a long day of troubleshooting a system outage and I posted before thinking through my response. Thanks for your moderating!

I mentioned this topic to my wife and she gave this example....lets say that this same system was being used throughout the church buildings. President Monson is traveling in Germany and asks his assistant to schedule a meeting in the First Presidency's conference room for the following Tuesday at 9AM. Bro. Hales opens his iPad and opens the schedule. Should he have to know the time difference between Berlin and Salt Lake (and schedule the meeting for Tuesday at 5pm) or just schedule the room for Tuesday at 9am?
lisaan
Church Employee
Church Employee
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 2:16 pm
Location: Riverton, Utah, USA

#18

Post by lisaan »

We're aware of the time zone "concerns" in Calendar and it's on our to-do list for implementation in a future version of Calendar. Thanks for your input.
QA Engineer
jeffevannelson
Church Employee
Church Employee
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:26 am
Location: Utah

Re: Different Time Zone issue

#19

Post by jeffevannelson »

I think the fix for this is to more easily display what timezone on the "when" part of creating a event. If it was displayed more simply.

the other option is to allow you to pick a timezone for your account or select use computer time. We would have to think about that but is we had for example MST next to the time when you create then when he is in another timezone he sees EST then it would at least given the user more information.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 31960
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

Re: Different Time Zone issue

#20

Post by russellhltn »

Personally, I'd just be happy with a display (and possible selection) of time zone on the main calendar page. That's going to be the point where most will go "what the ...". I think most will understand that a setting on the main page will carry over to all sub-pages.

Displaying the time zone when creating each event is a nice touch, but how would that work when you're creating an event that's on the "other side" if DST? Would it be MST or MDT (as appropriate for the event date entered)? Seems like that's going to be harder to code.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
Post Reply

Return to “Calendar”