Record Request - Ward Geocode doesn't stick

Discussions around using and interfacing with the Church MLS program.
ljharvey
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:49 pm
Location: Henderson

Lost geocodes

Postby ljharvey » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:44 pm

It seems to me that the Stake Geocode should only be changeable by the Stake as it is used to do all the whatifs on realignments.

In the same train the Ward geocode should only be changed at the Ward Level as this is for Home teaching, visiting teaching, quorums etc.

But any local information ie address, phone, geocodes, emails inputted prior to the request of records should not over ridden in the download process.

We just went through a major stake realignment and had the same problem when the records were moved to the new wards. All the Stake geocodes were lost when we recieved the download moving members to their new wards, this past week. We now have to reenter codes for 8 wards.
Harv;)

danpass
Member
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:38 pm
Location: Oregon City, OR
Contact:

Postby danpass » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:37 pm

Harv wrote:But any local information ie address, phone, geocodes, emails inputted prior to the request of records should not over ridden in the download process.

We just went through a major stake realignment and had the same problem when the records were moved to the new wards. All the Stake geocodes were lost when we recieved the download moving members to their new wards, this past week. We now have to reenter codes for 8 wards.


When the wards in your stake moved the households, did they use the boundary realignment feature in MLS or did they just move the households individually? If they used the MLS boundary realignment feature, there should not have been any data loss. When you do a normal household move, MLS assumes that the address and contact information have changed and blanks them out unless you reenter them as the new address and contact information. Based on the earlier posts in this thread, the stake geocode disappears when records are moved this way. I doubt that the stake geocode disappears if the boundary realignment method is used to move a household.

Our stake recently realigned some ward boundaries. I will look at our stake MLS to confirm this and report back, unless someone else gets to it before I do.

The general problem of MLS assuming that the address has changed when a household is moved out from a ward was recently discussed here.

ljharvey
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:49 pm
Location: Henderson

Postby ljharvey » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:09 am

We are meeting tomorrow night (later today) at the Stake and will have to ask exactly how they were moved. I know in quickly checking the unit statistics to verify all the moves had taken place Sunday morning the Stake geocodes were gone and the ward information was correct.
They were all given a list of members moving out of their unit and the new unit name and number to move into. They were given information to use the Boundary Realignment feature to move their members.


Thankyou for the information. It give me something to check and keep in mind for the next split.
Harv;)

RossEvans
Senior Member
Posts: 1346
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:52 pm
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Postby RossEvans » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:30 am

Harv wrote:It seems to me that the Stake Geocode should only be changeable by the Stake as it is used to do all the whatifs on realignments.


I don't think this is the general intent, unless the stake clerks want to do a lot of data entry and maintenance. In my last stake, the stake set the policy for populating the stake "GEO Code" field, but the actual data entry was the responsibility of all the ward clerks and membership clerks. (My current stake does not populate this legacy field. Instead the stake clerks use real lat/lon geocoding for boundary work.)

russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 26632
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

Postby russellhltn » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:46 am

danpass wrote:When the wards in your stake moved the households, did they use the boundary realignment feature in MLS or did they just move the households individually?


And did these records move into a new stake? I could see why MLS might be designed such that a boundary re-alignment into a new stake could clear the stake code since each stake has their own coding system.

Likewise, I think clearing the ward codes was deliberate.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.

lajackson
Community Moderators
Posts: 8698
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:27 pm
Location: US

Postby lajackson » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:39 pm

boomerbubba wrote:In my last stake, the stake set the policy for populating the stake "GEO Code" field, but the actual data entry was the responsibility of all the ward clerks and membership clerks.


I can't check right now, but I do not think the ward can update the stake GEO Code field.

However, if the ward enters a ward code and the stake does not enter a code, the ward code will flow to the stake. So a stake could give a ward instructions on how to enter a code and it would populate the stake field, as well.

We don't worry about it in our stake. The wards do their thing and the stake does theirs.

RossEvans
Senior Member
Posts: 1346
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:52 pm
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Postby RossEvans » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:55 pm

lajackson wrote:I can't check right now, but I do not think the ward can update the stake GEO Code field.

However, if the ward enters a ward code and the stake does not enter a code, the ward code will flow to the stake. So a stake could give a ward instructions on how to enter a code and it would populate the stake field, as well.

We don't worry about it in our stake. The wards do their thing and the stake does theirs.


Perhaps I am wrong. I actually have no experience with this in MLS, since in our case neither the ward nor the stake populates either field. My prior experience was with the old MIS system, which only had one such field as I recall. In that case (about 10 years ago) the stake set the policy but the ward clerks did the work. Maybe (assistant) stake clerks do this today for all households? It would be a lot of manual effort to populate the stake GEO Code field this way. No wonder our stake uses an external GIS program instead. (See spinoff thread on related topic.)

User avatar
mkmurray
Senior Member
Posts: 3241
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:56 pm
Location: Utah
Contact:

Postby mkmurray » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:57 pm

I don't know what happens when I populate the Stake Geocode field. It stays populated in our local instance of MLS and never gets changed by anyone from the Stake install of MLS...

lajackson
Community Moderators
Posts: 8698
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:27 pm
Location: US

Postby lajackson » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:08 pm

mkmurray wrote:I don't know what happens when I populate the Stake Geocode field. It stays populated in our local instance of MLS and never gets changed by anyone from the Stake install of MLS...


I figured this out once. There are actually three geocodes. The Ward Geocode, the Stake Geocode recorded in the ward MLS, and the Stake Geocode recorded in the stake MLS.

The ward can enter a Ward Geocode and/or a Stake Geocode. They are independent. A ward could enter two different codes, one to use at the ward and the other as a stake code. The ward enters one or the other of these two codes and they never change unless the ward changes them.

At the stake, there are several different possibilities. The stake can see the Ward Geocode but cannot change it. The stake can also manage the Stake Geocode (in the stake MLS). This is where the fun begins.

The stake can enter a Stake Geocode in the stake MLS. If this is done, the Stake Geocode does not change unless the stake changes it again.

If the stake does not enter a Stake Geocode in the stake MLS, the ward can send either their Ward Geocode or their Stake Geocode (the stake code they entered in the ward MLS).

If the ward entered a Ward Geocode but not a Stake Geocode, the Ward Geocode will flow to the stake MLS as the Stake Geocode.

If the ward entered a Stake Geocode in the ward MLS, the Stake Geocode will flow to the Stake MLS and become the Stake Geocode in the stake MLS.

Once the stake receives a code from the ward or enters a Stake Geocode in the stake MLS, the stake code stays and does not change, no matter what the ward does. Only the stake can change it.

Finally, the Stake Geocode in the stake MLS never flows to the ward MLS.

And that's about all I know about geocodes.

User avatar
jeromer7
Member
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 11:46 am
Location: Bellevue, Nebraska

To Code or Not to

Postby jeromer7 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:02 am

lajackson wrote:And that's about all I know about geocodes.

That is a lot!! And this exactly matches my experience with stake and ward geocodes.

Long ago (but not far away) an area map was sliced into a matrix of approximately 1 mile squares using major established streets. Each square was given an alpha-numeric identifier and our Stake Geocodes were born. This matrix is provided to the ward/branch clerks. They have been told they can use whatever they'd like for the ward code (so far only one ward has developed their own scheme), but to use the established stake codes for the stake geocode field. Some do a better job than others at keeping this up, so when the stake presidency is looking at boundaries, I have to find all the stake geocodes that are "Add" and put in the appropriate stake code.

Not a perfect system, but it is far better than the pins-on-a-AAA-roadmap excercise I did back in the early 90's.
JLR


Return to “MLS Support, Help, and Feedback”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest