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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:26 pm
by reachtheworld-p40
Actually you have it a little backwards. We don't keep the scriptures in PDF format. They are converted to PDF format after they are converted to the Web format.
You are referring to the Web / Technical dept., right? I meant the Printing Dept. Unless I'm very much mistaken, Printing has files on computers that they use to print off the scriptures on ther big printing presses. It's the same process, kind of, as printing off a MS Word document from your home PC; their printer (actually printing press) is just much much bigger.

Even if they do not do this, which I think would fly in the face of publishing norms and be very surprising, posting PDFs would still be relatively easy. Just take the book, cut off the binding, scan it (there's machines that will automatically do this so you don't have to manually feed in each page), and then save it as a PDF. No OCR, no nothing, no potential for errors, just the raw images of the pages. There are even services which can do this for you, for a reasonable cost.

The whole point of this is to cut out any possibility for transmission errors or human errors. Thus eliminate the roadblocks to getting it online. The scanning-from-print idea adds a *very slight* possibility for error that distilling direct from the printing file doesn't have, but any errors could be easily caught by going through page by page (making sure the digital is visually the same as the physical, no pages are missing or smudged, etc.) by someone who doesn't even speak the language.

Should I call the printing dept. with this idea; is it more up their alley?

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:03 am
by WelchTC
reachtheworld wrote:Should I call the printing dept. with this idea; is it more up their alley?
Yes, that is more up their alley.

Tom

Languages

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:48 am
by HansenBK
Another difficulty in posting up in different languages is making sure that the indexing and searching is correct. If somebody searches on Nephi in English we want to make sure that the results that come back in Spanish are identical. With diacritics and other characters thrown in the mix it makes things rather interesting.

If it's in PDF?

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:52 pm
by tomj
PDF
I see where reachtheworld is going with this and I agree that it is likely that the print/publishing office should have some version (ps or pdf) that would look Identical to the paper copy. Why cant that be taken and optimized for the web so that there is at least some access to the Book of Mormon in those less popular languages, while we are waiting for the HTML version. A pdf in this shape would be searchable through the pdf reader.

Scanned
I don't like the thought of scanned pdf's. They usually are pretty big files, and sometimes the machine errors and makes the pages crooked or feeds two pages at once etc... but still I guess it's better than nothing at all. Most Digital Copy Machines now will do this.

Update on Languages

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:34 pm
by reachtheworld-p40
Update! Update!

So, after several phone calls, here is the situation.

Printing does have almost all the translations in digital form, though there are a *few* that are still on film only. Printing does not want to just release the undoctored pdf files because they have tick marks (for assembling the 16-page groups and binding the book together). And possibly other printing marks/info. So they feel that would be innappropriate to release the scriptures for download in such a form, and that's understandable. I suppose they might have to rearrange the page order too, now that I think about it.

According to the man I talked to, Ron S., they had gone the pdf route on some other documents, and it ends up taking just as long to clean up the pdf for release as it takes to just do it the right way.

Ron also let me know the rough schedule we're looking at for getting all the current translations of the scriptures online. They hope to have 30 or so online by the end of the year. WOW! And all of them up within two years. That's a far cry from the five year gap between English and Spanish. So by 2008 or 9, this will no longer be an issue. They're comfortable enough with the data conversion process now that they're not going to have the "legions of pre-release proofreaders" we've been stewing about -- they're going to let the *users* be the proofreaders. As in, just all the normal web surfers; if we find a typo or something, we submit it for correction. So I take it that's one reason it's going to start going a lot faster. They're starting with a core 12 languages which are the 12 most-used languages on the internet, and those should definitely be done by year-end 2007, as I understood Ron. The ten most common languages on the internet today are English, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, German, French, Brazilian Portuguese, Korean, Italian, and either Russian or Arabic (this site says Arabic: http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm , this one Russian: http://www.icef.com/bulletin/2007-02/07 ... ep_en.html ). So I guess we'll see those 11 first, plus one mystery player to round out the 12. Portuguese is the next in line for the Church, of course, and sensibly so because there are so many Portuguese Church members.

This is all part of a larger effort to move everything onto XML, so that they don't have to worry about document conversion ever again and will be ready for new publishing and typesetting techniques and technologies as they come along.

So now you know what's going on at the Printing Division of the Church!

I forgot to ask about the scanned-pdf option. But with such an accelerated time-schedule, it's not such a dire need, at least in my mind. They will be online soon, and then, happy day, all is well.

And Maybe Dutch

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:50 pm
by reachtheworld-p40
Dutchmen, your prospects also look bright, because http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/388B3FC7- ... 2651E2042/ puts the Dutch tenth on the top ten at 1.6 % of internet users. So:
English √ CHECK
Chinese
Japanese
Spanish √ CHECK
German √ CHECK
French √ CHECK
Brazilian Portuguese NEXT IN LINE
Korean
Italian √ CHECK
Russian
Arabic
Dutch

Those are the likely contenders for the first 12 languages that we will be being put on the internet.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:01 pm
by richmanll
Thanks for your great suggestions. Scriptures in languages is very important to us,and we are working on many more languages to post online. You'll see a new language added every month or two. As Tom mentioned below, we have to be very careful with the scriptures to be sure the content is 100% correct.

Italian's have few materials

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:12 pm
by TAR-p40
TOM
As I understand it, Italians have few church books etc. Can you walk me through
how to get the Gospel Library into ITALIAN ?

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:32 pm
by JamesAnderson
Tom is right, the Scriptures are not in PDF format. They are in a text format that is set up to be read in HTML and probably uses XML for formatting purposes online.

But having a page for page PDF format online where you could print a page or pages could be extremely useful. They already have printed overheads of pages from the Scriptures I've seen used for many years in CES classrooms, largely seminary and institute classes. When the teacher wants to show something in the scriptures, he/she pulls out the page from the instructor's kits for the lessons, then puts them on the overhead nad marks them up as he/she goes to show things about a particular scripture block to the students.

PDFs could allow a sunday school, YM, or any other instructor to pull a page and give it to the students during the class and they could follow along and mark that page up, then later if they wanted to add the work from that class done on that paper printed copy to their own scriptures their own way, they would have the 'class notes' so to speak.

I believe you could do that now generally with the HTML/XML pages, but having exact replicas of pages from the scriptures from PDFs would allow for some more enhanced things in the classroom.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:40 pm
by WelchTC
TAR wrote:TOM
As I understand it, Italians have few church books etc. Can you walk me through
how to get the Gospel Library into ITALIAN ?
I wish I could answer your question. The Curriculum department is working with the translation department to translate content into various languages but I don't know their process or time frames.

Tom