"Send a Message" Function on LCR

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russellhltn
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Re: "Send a Message" Function on LCR

#451

Post by russellhltn »

garystroble wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:43 pm Overboard how? This problem is much bigger than a few units causing it. We are trying to use the email system as it has been structured for leaders to use.
Too many messages, too "chatty". Basically anything that would cause the membership to flag the unending stream of messages they can't opt out of as spam. If too many members (including inactive and "no contacts") flag "no-reply-lcr" as spam, then all messages for all units get affected.

Your ward may be using it properly. But out there somewhere, I'm sure there's a "Chatty Cathy" that's been put in charge of communication and "magnifying" their calling.
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garystroble
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Re: "Send a Message" Function on LCR

#452

Post by garystroble »

russellhltn wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 6:26 pm
garystroble wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:43 pm Overboard how? This problem is much bigger than a few units causing it. We are trying to use the email system as it has been structured for leaders to use.
Too many messages, too "chatty". Basically anything that would cause the membership to flag the unending stream of messages they can't opt out of as spam. If too many members (including inactive and "no contacts") flag "no-reply-lcr" as spam, then all messages for all units get affected.

Your ward may be using it properly. But out there somewhere, I'm sure there's a "Chatty Cathy" that's been put in charge of communication and "magnifying" their calling.
Until throttles are put on the number of emails allowed, this possible causation will probably continue. Do you have a realistic solution? You have posted multiple times in the past about chatty persons.
russellhltn
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Re: "Send a Message" Function on LCR

#453

Post by russellhltn »

garystroble wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:23 pm Until throttles are put on the number of emails allowed, this possible causation will probably continue. Do you have a realistic solution? You have posted multiple times in the past about chatty persons.
I'm not sure what to suggest. I'm just pointing out that one unit's excess can affect other units.

Are you suggesting that there isn't a unit that uses Send a Message to excess?
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garystroble
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Re: "Send a Message" Function on LCR

#454

Post by garystroble »

I never suggested any such thing. Of course there are excesses as well as slackers in some callings and positions, and this will continue until we are all perfected.

One possible issue I see is that if an email person and/or leader does not send many emails in a ward but then a member moves to another ward where the person you described is the Ward Email Specialist, then all of a sudden his desires to get less emails is not being honored. Since people move all the time to other wards, this is again a global problem, not a unit problem, and requires some type of global solution. Thus far, the solution has been sorely lacking.
holly96
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Re: "Send a Message" Function on LCR

#455

Post by holly96 »

Some of these potential issues would also be affecting gmail in some way, either automatically sending to spam, adding warning banners, etc., and it doesn't seem like that is happening? So something is causing a problem with Yahoo that gmail algorithms are not picking up, which is surprising to me, since gmail is what we've had email sending issues with at my workplace, not Yahoo.

Related, I changed my email address to my gmail account, and set up filters there to forward emails from both noreply-lcr@churchofjesuschrist.org and noreply@churchofjesuschrist.org (as donation emails also do not go through) to my Yahoo account. Some of my previous donation emails forwarded successfully (though an email for one yesterday still has not come through even to gmail, so something else is going on there that is delaying those). But none of the emails sent through LCR were forwarding. I thought it was an issue with my filter, but today I discovered in my gmail spam a bunch of mail delivery failed notifications for all the emails gmail tried to automatically forward to my Yahoo account. This is the error code:

554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See https://postmaster.yahooinc.com/error-codes

At that link, these seem like the possible culprits for the 554 error:
  • Your message failed authentication checks against your sending domain's DMARC or DKIM policy.
  • The message contains characteristics that Yahoo won't accept for policy reasons.
  • Other suspicious behavior which leads Yahoo to issue a permanent rejection for your SMTP connection.
They also provide this link for sender best practices: https://senders.yahooinc.com/best-practices. So the church system is running afoul of something here.

I assume this is the same error you would see for all the emails being sent directly through LCR (or the donation system).
sebastian.buck
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Re: "Send a Message" Function on LCR

#456

Post by sebastian.buck »

If a receiving email server like Yahoo’s is giving correct error messages everything is alright. Because the sender will get notified about delivering problems and can take appropriate actions like sending an email again or from another account.

But this is not the problem since emails sent from an LCR account apparently get lost without any trace or error message. And of course it’s not only Yahoo email addresses.

But thanks for trying and reporting here what you have found out.
russellhltn
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Re: "Send a Message" Function on LCR

#457

Post by russellhltn »

sebastian.buck wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:23 pm it’s not only Yahoo email addresses.
While a few different domains have been mentioned, it seems that Yahoo/AOL (same mail system) are the consistently blocked ones. That suggests there's something unique about that service that's creating difficulties.
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holly96
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Re: "Send a Message" Function on LCR

#458

Post by holly96 »

sebastian.buck wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:23 pm If a receiving email server like Yahoo’s is giving correct error messages everything is alright. Because the sender will get notified about delivering problems and can take appropriate actions like sending an email again or from another account.

But this is not the problem since emails sent from an LCR account apparently get lost without any trace or error message. And of course it’s not only Yahoo email addresses.

But thanks for trying and reporting here what you have found out.
I would assume Yahoo is sending the same error messages I got. The issue is likely that they are being directed to the noreply-lcr@churchofjesuschrist.org address, not to whoever actually sent the message through LCR. I only got one because I had it being redirected through my gmail, which was the one forwarding it to yahoo. So the error messages are being sent, but the people sending the emails aren't actually the ones getting them.
sebastian.buck
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Re: "Send a Message" Function on LCR

#459

Post by sebastian.buck »

holly96 wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:37 am So the error messages are being sent, but the people sending the emails aren't actually the ones getting them.
That might very well be the case here. And if so then the Church should be able to quickly fix it. They only need to have the right REPLY-TO set.
russellhltn
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Re: "Send a Message" Function on LCR

#460

Post by russellhltn »

sebastian.buck wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:51 am That might very well be the case here. And if so then the Church should be able to quickly fix it. They only need to have the right REPLY-TO set.
When I look at the header of a email I received at the beginning of the month, I see REPLY-TO is set. But I think that's only of value for errors that crop up after the email has been accepted. There are errors that can arise during the transfer such that the transfer is incomplete.
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