"Officers Sustained" form for Wards/Branches

[aebrown]

I think we've stumbled on a programming bug that is fairly evident in the table below.
A "√" indicates the menu selection is in the native language and "Eng" indicates English.

Code: Select all

Language            Certificate         Form
========            ===========         ====
Chinese                  Eng             √ 
Danish                   Eng             √ 
Dutch                    Eng             √ 
English                  Eng            Eng
Finnish                  Eng             √ 
French                    √             Eng 
German                   Eng             √ 
Indonesian               Eng             √ 
Italian                  Eng             √ 
Japanese                 Eng             √ 
Korean                    √             Eng 
Norwegian                Eng             √ 
Portuguese               Eng             √ 
Samoan                   Eng             √ 
Spanish                   √             Eng 
Swedish                  Eng             √ 
Thai                     Eng             √ 
Tonga                     √             Eng

See a pattern?

You're right that there's a bug. The bug definitely follows a pattern, but it's not quite what you think. If you try to repeat the experiment, I think you'll see different results. Here's the actual pattern:

You see the list in the desired language in whichever screen (Form or Certificate) on which you first select that language. When you subsequently select that language on the other screen, you get English.

So if my theory is correct, you first showed the Certificate list for the languages of French, Korean, Spanish, and Tongan. You first showed the Form list for all the other languages.

The reason I couldn't see the Forms list in Spanish is that I had first seen the Spanish Certificate list. But jbh001 went first into the Forms list, so he saw that list in Spanish when he selected the Spanish language.

[Mikerowaved]

You're right that there's a bug.

You see the list in the desired language in whichever screen (Form or Certificate) on which you first select that language. When you subsequently select that language on the other screen, you get English.

Yup, you nailed it. That's exactly what's happening.

[lajackson]

You're right that there's a bug.

The reason I couldn't see the Forms list in Spanish is that I had first seen the Spanish Certificate list. But jbh001 went first into the Forms list, so he saw that list in Spanish when he selected the Spanish language.

This could actually be helpful (at least until the bug is fixed). If you select Spanish on the Certificate list, then go to the Forms list and select Spanish (but the list remains in English because of the bug), do you still get the Spanish form if you select it and print it?

This would help our Clerk who speaks not a word of Spanish and keeps returning with the wrong version of the list of officers sustained. If he could pick the list in English and still get it to print in Spanish, he would think he had died and gone to heaven. [grin]

[aebrown]

This could actually be helpful (at least until the bug is fixed). If you select Spanish on the Certificate list, then go to the Forms list and select Spanish (but the list remains in English because of the bug), do you still get the Spanish form if you select it and print it?

This would help our Clerk who speaks not a word of Spanish and keeps returning with the wrong version of the list of officers sustained. If he could pick the list in English and still get it to print in Spanish, he would think he had died and gone to heaven. [grin]

Yes, the form does print out in the selected language. The bug only affects the display of the list of choices.

So if he wants to see the form choices in English, he should visit the Print Certificate list, select the Spanish language, cancel, and go over to the Print Form screen. When he then selects Spanish, he'll see the list in English, which will make it easier for him to pick the right form, but the form will print in Spanish.

Of course, I wouldn't get too attached to this behavior -- you'll probably lose it when the bug gets fixed. Although I would actually argue that MLS shouldn't change the language of the list in either case. If you are using the English version of MLS, the user interface should remain in English. It's very handy to be able to print a form or certificate in another language, but it's entirely possible the person doing the printing doesn't speak that language. It seems odd to assume that someone can speak English well enough to start MLS and navigate all the way to the list of forms or certificates, but then the list has to be translated in order for them to choose the right form.

[lajackson]

Yes, the form does print out in the selected language. The bug only affects the display of the list of choices.

Of course, I wouldn't get too attached to this behavior --

It seems odd to assume that someone can speak English well enough to start MLS and navigate all the way to the list of forms or certificates, but then the list has to be translated in order for them to choose the right form.

Yes. This caught me by surprise the first time I tried to print out the sustaining list in Spanish. I have since learned to recognize the words barrio and estaca. The current clerk is still working on it, though.

[Mikerowaved]

Although I would actually argue that MLS shouldn't change the language of the list in either case. If you are using the English version of MLS, the user interface should remain in English. It's very handy to be able to print a form or certificate in another language, but it's entirely possible the person doing the printing doesn't speak that language. It seems odd to assume that someone can speak English well enough to start MLS and navigate all the way to the list of forms or certificates, but then the list has to be translated in order for them to choose the right form.

True, however, when the actual form is brought up, it will need to be filled in using the selected language, so IMO having the list in that language is kind of a "heads up" for what's coming next. For some languages, that means having the right character set installed too.

BTW, I just checked MLS 2.9.2 and it exhibits the same behavior.

[aebrown]

True, however, when the actual form is brought up, it will need to be filled in using the selected language, so IMO having the list in that language is kind of a "heads up" for what's coming next.

I would make the same argument for the next screen (the one where you fill in names) as well. In my opinion, the interface of MLS should be in a consistent language -- it makes little sense to me to change the language for a few screens. If the prompts for forms and certificates need to be in a different language, then all of MLS needs to be in that different language.

[jbh001]

I would make the same argument for the next screen (the one where you fill in names) as well. In my opinion, the interface of MLS should be in a consistent language -- it makes little sense to me to change the language for a few screens. If the prompts for forms and certificates need to be in a different language, then all of MLS needs to be in that different language.

There are pros and cons for both ways. I like the "heads up" feature of having the language change, but if I then didn't know that language I would likely get lost in filling out the form. I think a better solution might be to populate the list in the base language, but then add the target language in parentheses afterward.

For example, if the base language was English you would see "Officers Sustained -- Ward" as a form to select. If you then set the language to Spanish, then that option would repopulate as "Officers Sustained -- Ward (Spanish)" or maybe even "Sostenimiento de oficiales--Barrio de Estaca (Officers Sustained -- Ward)." This would provide a sort of "heads up" while at the same time letting you complete the form in English.

However, I disagree that MLS should be forced to stick to one language. Being able to switch to a different language on the fly can be useful in a variety of situations, one of which was discussed below.

http://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.ph ... #post20284

I foresee that scenario becoming more and more common, even within the United States. In our stake we have a Spanish branch and a Marshallese branch. It would be so convenient for stake auditors to be able to switch MLS on the fly between English, Spanish, and Marshallese when supporting/training these units.

[aebrown]

For example, if the base language was English you would see "Officers Sustained -- Ward" as a form to select. If you then set the language to Spanish, then that option would repopulate as "Officers Sustained -- Ward (Spanish)" or maybe even "Sostenimiento de oficiales--Barrio de Estaca (Officers Sustained -- Ward)." This would provide a sort of "heads up" while at the same time letting you complete the form in English.

I think that's a good idea.

However, I disagree that MLS should be forced to stick to one language. Being able to switch to a different language on the fly can be useful in a variety of situations, one of which was discussed below.

I never said that MLS should stick to one language. I completely agree that it's useful to switch languages, and I think it should be easier to do it on the fly.

What I said was that when MLS is operating in a certain base language, it shouldn't display certain screens in a different language. If you are operating MLS in English, all prompts should be in English, even if you are filling out a Korean certificate. If you are operating MLS in Korean, all prompts should be in Korean, even if you are filling out an English certificate.