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2 Adults needed for car travel to Stake Dances or other events?

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:00 am
by jgoggan
Anyone have any clarification/guidance on one adult driving multiple youth to a youth dance? Does this violate the two-deep requirements or not?

We have direction that says:

"At least two adults must be present at all Church-sponsored activities attended by youth or children."

I'm not sure someone driving them TO an activity is the same as being AT the activity. It also says:

"To protect youth and children, leaders should always avoid one-on-one situations with a youth or a child [...]"

And this would not be a one-on-one situation.

Note that even the BSA appears to make an exception to their two-deep Youth Protection requirements when traveling:

"Two adults are not required per car when traveling to meetings or other Scouting events. That is, as long as the 'no one-on-one contact' policy is followed."

So, I'm hoping that the Church has the same view so that we can more easily get youth to events -- but I couldn't find any specific guidance/policy on that at this point.

Thanks!

Re: 2 Adults needed for car travel to Stake Dances or other events?

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:49 pm
by russellhltn
All I can find is Handbook 2: 13.6.24
When a Church activity for youth involves travel outside the local vicinity or staying overnight, parents should give written permission for their children to participate (see 13.6.13). Responsible adult supervision must be provided (see 13.6.2).
13.6.2 indicates two adults are required.

Which leaves open the question of travel "inside the local vicinity", as well as how "local vicinity" is defined. All I can do there is point to Handbook 0.3:
Leaders who have questions about information in the handbooks or about issues that are not addressed should direct the questions to their immediate presiding authority.
Absent finding a policy somewhere, all that anyone here can do is say how their stake handles it.

Re: 2 Adults needed for car travel to Stake Dances or other events?

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:01 pm
by jgoggan
russellhltn wrote:All I can find is Handbook 2: 13.6.24
[...]
13.6.2 indicates two adults are required.
13.6.2 is what I quoted above also. As I said, it does not state that two are required while traveling necessarily. It says that they are required at "all Church-sponsored activities attended by children, youth, and young single adults." I might argue that traveling to an activity is not the same as the activity itself.

And I think that is especially true because they include YSAs in that. We have YSAs that drive themselves to events all the time -- or drive together in groups. We've never felt that we needed to have two adults in the car with the YSAs while traveling to a Church event -- only that there would be two adults to supervise once they got there.

So, I think I'd disagree that 13.6.2 indicates that two adults are required for the travel itself.
Absent finding a policy somewhere, all that anyone here can do is say how their stake handles it.
Agreed. I started there. They didn't know and said to let them know if I found any official policy. :) So, that is what I was checking on -- to see if I was missing anything. Looks like not, so far. Thanks!

Re: 2 Adults needed for car travel to Stake Dances or other events?

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:46 pm
by russellhltn
jgoggan wrote:13.6.2 is what I quoted above also. As I said, it does not state that two are required while traveling necessarily.
The fact that 13.6.24 does reference 13.6.2 suggests to me that it DOES apply "When a Church activity for youth involves travel outside the local vicinity or staying overnight".

However, I'm guessing your situation doesn't fall into that category.

We'll have to wait and see what others come up with.

Re: 2 Adults needed for car travel to Stake Dances or other events?

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:08 pm
by jgoggan
Agreed, I am not referring to what I would consider travel outside of the local vicinity.

Re: 2 Adults needed for car travel to Stake Dances or other events?

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:47 pm
by davestlyon
Uh, well the first thing I thought of wasn't in the handbook, it was in the new youth protection training I just did online. One of the specific examples is a leader asking a kid to zip home to grab one more thing. The correct answer was to take others along. From the rest of the training, the implication is another adult. Having that policy spelled out a little more clearly would be nice, but the principle is to protect both the youth and the adults.

Re: 2 Adults needed for car travel to Stake Dances or other events?

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:00 am
by jgoggan
Most of the principle presented to protect the adult is "avoid one-on-one contact." That is repeated over and over. It seems to be strongly implied that the protection for youth is to have 2-deep and the protection for adults is to avoid one-on-one.

In any case, I agree it needs to be clarified.

This is actually a huge deal for us. We struggle with finding enough drivers and car space for Stake events. Having to have two adults per car would reduce our number of drivers while taking up more seatbelts...

Re: 2 Adults needed for car travel to Stake Dances or other events?

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:29 am
by jgoggan
So, just as a followup... I just called Risk Management to get their input. Their response was basically that 2-deep all the time would be "best practice", but that they understand that is not always possible when traveling. They said that, in those cases where 2-deep while driving isn't feasible, they recommend the Boy Scouts' "Rule of 3" which basically says that if 2-deep isn't feasible while traveling, then just make sure that you plan things so that there are always at least 2 youth with the adult in the vehicle. So that you never end up in a one-on-one situation.

I mentioned that the BSA has specifically addressed it with their "Two adults are not required per car when traveling to meetings or other Scouting events." and asked if the Church had a similar policy anywhere. They said that they did not have one yet, but with the recent refocus and training requirements, they would not be surprised if one came in the near future.

Re: 2 Adults needed for car travel to Stake Dances or other events?

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:34 am
by drepouille
That is sound reasoning, assuming the adult picks up the youth together at one location, and drops them off together at another location. The sticky bit comes when they want the adult to pick them up one at a time, and drop them off one at a time. The only thing left to protect the adult would be if one of those youth was his child.

Re: 2 Adults needed for car travel to Stake Dances or other events?

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:23 am
by iamjayiam
Here is a copy of an answer that I got back from the asking the question to the feedback at the https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/cal ... h?lang=eng website. My original question was "I am an adult brother, can I provide a ride to church or activities to several youth from the same family? Do I have to have another adult brother or my wife with me?"

Hello,

Thank you for your feedback.

Here is an excerpt from a Q&A that may be helpful:

Are we allowed to drive children and youth to and from an activity?
Yes, as long as you have multiple youth or children in your car and you are not in a one on one situation. This may take some extra planning to avoid situations where you have one youth or child left to drop off.

Thank you,

-Response Team