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Stake System Broadcasting Green Screen Through Teradek

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:25 pm
by arpitman
We just had the latest AV system installed in our stake center. It has a panel with a switching that allows us to switch between the high def camera and HDMI computer input.

We webcast to the church webcast system with a brand new Teradek Go. Where the HDMI into comes from the output of the switcher.

A month ago this worked great for a stake priesthood meeting. I switch back and forth several times during the meeting and the broadcast was perfect.

Tonight we had a primary program broadcast. I used the exact same system as the priesthood one a month ago.

This time when I would switch to the computer input the system showed everything ok on all the tvs and monitors, but the teradek would show my desktop of my computer for about 2-3 seconds and then switch to a green screen. The audio would still play, but the video was just a whole screen of green.

The system contractor said nothing has change in the system that he knows of.

My plan B for tonight was that I just stoped the broadcast on the teradek, unplugged the system from the teradek, plugged my computer directly into the teradek and restarted the broadcast on the teradek.

Obviously that was not great because everyone watching saw that the broadcast dropped. I had the person introducing the program tell everyone that this would happen, but it was still not great.

The contractor thinks maybe something has changed in my macbook pro over the last month that has introduced some kind of digital rights thing that the broadcast doesn't allow me to play from my laptop anymore. If so then it would be inside the new AV system because playing directly through the Teradek worked fine.

I also have a second macbook pro that I tried on it and got the same results. I also have another teradek that I quickly brought over and it did the same thing. Tried a different HDMI cable, same...

So, does anyone know what is going on?

Re: Stake System Broadcasting Green Screen Through Teradek

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:35 pm
by russellhltn
When HDMI is connected, the two devices negotiate the connection. I'm thinking the difference might be as simple as having the switch set to computer when you connected your computer to the system. That could allow a pass-though for the computer to negotiate with the Teradek. If the switch is set to camera that negotiation may not take place, and the encoder may not like what the computer picked.

I'll add that I'm not sure as the system was designed to switch sources mid-broadcast.

Re: Stake System Broadcasting Green Screen Through Teradek

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:20 am
by winjesluck
I have a couple different versions of the "latest AV systems" where I'm located in Australia and one of the Stake Centres I assist with was one of the first to get the new Kramer Video System & BSS Audio system in Australia a few years ago, but it could be equivalent hardware in other parts of the world.

I have had one of our clerks mentioned having the similar issues at the beginning of the year with the stake centre that got the new system a few years ago, but with a Surface plugged into the HDMI input at the pulpit (which also a HDBaseT extender to the video system in the overflow) and the picture going blue on the projector after a few seconds of it showing the surface's screen on the projector. I have seen it happen once during a devotional the the speaker had one of those surprise last minute powerpoint presentations they put together on their a Macbook Pro that they plugged into the pulpit, but haven't been able to troubleshoot that since I don't have a macbook and the person left straight after the devotional.

One thing that comes to mind is some Macbook Pros and most surfaces have a 4K screen and the HDMI output on them might be set to 4K.
Have you tried reducing the screen resolution on the laptop to 1080p or even 720p as the distance of the cable could be a factor or the Video System scaler can't scale 4K video or can't handle 4K inputs over long cable runs.

Depending on your HDMI input and how it connects to the video system, if it has a extender attached to it, I find sometimes the extender sometimes need a power cycle when left on few a few months for the longer cable runs, but I wouldn't suggest doing this on a new system without the FM or system contractor saying it's ok to try this as I've had some systems where the contractor just in case you bum or turn off something that hasn't had it's config fully saved.

The other thing I can think of is something that the contractor asked if I wanted it when we had another stake centre AV upgraded during the COVID lockdowns here was if I wanted to have only one button to cycle between several different HDMI inputs, so if I pressed the input button:
-once, it would show the Fixed Camera,
-second press, it would switch to the Pulpit HDMI input
- third press would be the HDMI input in the overflow.
I didn't like this idea as it makes it would make it a quick change during a webcast to switch between the first and third inputs. I ended up getting separate buttons for each inputs, but I know my AV controller panels are capable of having this setup. Maybe you could try pressing the input button more than once to see if it cycles through some more inputs.

I know the AV Systems I assist with weren't designed to switch sources mid-broadcast as they only have a Presentation HDMI Switcher and not a Live Switcher, but I've found my systems have a very small delay in switching between inputs which doesn't cause issues for the webcast, although I have had the webcast once when I switched between inputs about a year ago and the system didn't switch fast enough causing the teradek to not get a video input which dropped the webcast.

Re: Stake System Broadcasting Green Screen Through Teradek

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:39 am
by arpitman
Thank you for both of your comments. I will try starting a broadcast with the computer selected first. I can't remember if I did that in the original broadcast that worked a month ago, so it is worth a try.

Our switching is 10 buttons and there is a short delay when it switches. On the broadcast that worked a month ago there were no problems. The broadcast continued fine. Yesterday the broadcast also continued fine and the AUDIO kept playing. It was just the video that went green, so I am pretty sure the source was correct.

I tried changing the resolution. The default output was 1080p. What the encoder always showed was 1080px60fps no matter what output I selected from my macbook. I believe the switcher sets the output resolution itself and just reencodes whatever is coming from the camera or laptop.

I am plugging right into the panel. As far as I know there are not extenders. I did try the pulpit input just to see if that would help, but got the same results.

Any other ideas?

Re: Stake System Broadcasting Green Screen Through Teradek

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:06 am
by russellhltn
arpitman wrote:I will try starting a broadcast with the computer selected first.
My comment was more along the lines of making sure the computer input is selected when the computer is first connected.

It wouldn't hurt to reboot after the connection is made so the hardware resets with the computer input selected.

Re: Stake System Broadcasting Green Screen Through Teradek

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:27 am
by hicksticks2001
For our stake broadcast room, we have a Roland VR-50HD (which has been discontinued and seems like Roland VR-50HD MK II and VR-4HD current replacements)

We pipe the building's AV system through the Roland Mixer and have the mixer plug into the Teradek encoder. The Mixer makes it easier for us to switch between our 3 cameras (2 permanently mounted and 1 tripod that we setup for larger events).

The Roland Mixer allows us to do picture-in-picture (show the words to the song as well as the conductor) and show people's names/wards/callings when speaking in meetings using powerpoint and such. It also outputs everything to USB 3.0 which we have plugged into a computer in case the Stake President requests that we record a specific meeting. It also makes it easier when we need to broadcast the same event in both English and Spanish where we have someone local doing to Spanish translation live to inject into the second event scheduled (our stake is the designated Spanish Stake for Payson, Utah).

Bottom line, if your STS group has the technical chops and desire, and your Stake President is willing to invest budget in the broadcasts, equipment like this takes stake broadcasts to a whole new level.

Re: Stake System Broadcasting Green Screen Through Teradek

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:41 pm
by arpitman
Well, since the church just spent who knows how many thousands of $ on this system I suspect we will have to figure out why it is having this issue. I doubt we will be spending any more on it.

Thank you for the suggestion, though.

Re: Stake System Broadcasting Green Screen Through Teradek

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:02 am
by ZoomJer
I had this very thing happen just last night at a YSA Stake Fireside. We tested the stake president's MacBook laptop before it started. No trouble, it went through the system just fine and appeared on all of the monitors and projectors (one behind the pulpit, 2 in the gym, and 2 monitors on the stand). What I didn't know is that it would be blocked for the online viewers and appear as a green screen. At least the sound came through fine.

Very frustrating, and I'm wondering if there is a sure fire way to avoid it.

Re: Stake System Broadcasting Green Screen Through Teradek

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:17 am
by arpitman
Turns out there are some settings in the equipment that turn HDCP on and off. If you get with your church support that manages your system (go through your area FM contact) they can turn that off on any of the ports in the system.

The effect is that a Macbook will not play protected content on a port that doesn't have it turned on, but will green screen on any port that does have it turned on.

So you have to choose which ports you want to behave in which way.

For our system I have HDCP turned off for the ports near the podium, but turned on for the one port at the overflow area. This would allow us to connect a laptop to that port and play movies or whatever over the system, while keeping the ones by the podium nice and open.

Re: Stake System Broadcasting Green Screen Through Teradek

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:55 am
by ZoomJer
I didn't know it was something they had control over. I figured it was baked into the Extron or Teradek or some other piece of hardware in the setup. I have submitted the request in FIR, thanks for the tip!