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donations not show in unit? Member pays direct to Church HQ

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:13 pm
by murdock20m
Hi Financial clerk here,

My newish Bishop just asked me about those who pay donations directly to church HQ and how he is to determine (those who don't attend settlement) if they are Tithe payers or not.
As he needs to make the declaration for them. I suppose this could also be a question when issuing Temple recommends as well. What can I tell the Bishop? (Also he is going to ask a former Bishop.)

Re: donations not show in unit? Member pays direct to Church HQ

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:17 pm
by eblood66
If they don't attend tithing settlement then he has to use his own (inspired) best judgement. If they hold a temple recommend then he may want to use that as a possible guide (since they must have answered that they were full tithe payers).

Re: donations not show in unit? Member pays direct to Church HQ

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:58 pm
by BrianEdwards
I'd suggest your Bishop navigate to the Tithing Settlement page in LCR, and then select the "Tithing Declaration" tab. Expanding the info section will automatically take him to the "Identifying and Recording Tithing Status" Help Center page, where the very first sentence is
The tithing status of a member is declared either by the member at tithing settlement or by the bishop.
To me, this reinforces that a member's tithing status is declared by the member, and that a Bishop then registers that declaration, and doesn't necessarily have to verify it himself. The pertinent word is declare, and not verify or prove. Obviously if a Bishop has questions he has the right to either view donation status online, or in this case ask the member for evidence of tithing paid. I understand some members pay directly to Church HQ because they do not want local leaders to be aware of their tithing amounts. For a situation where a member pays direct to Church HQ and doesn't attend tithing settlement, I would use my best judgement -- and then whenever this member has their next temple recommend appointment, I would make sure there is a thorough discussion about this with the member.

As with other temple recommend questions, a member is ultimately responsible before the Lord for answers the Bishop cannot verify himself.

Re: donations not show in unit? Member pays direct to Church HQ

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:06 pm
by russellhltn
BrianEdwards wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:58 pm To me, this reinforces that a member's tithing status is declared by the member,
Agreed, but OP's problem are members who do not declare.

About all the bishop can do is call or catch the member at church to get them to declare. Otherwise, it's up to inspiration.

Re: donations not show in unit? Member pays direct to Church HQ

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:54 am
by drepouille
It is interesting to see this from both sides. We have had members state on this forum that they want to donate directly to Church HQ specifically because they do not want the bishop or anyone else in their stake to know what they have donated. But the bishop must ask them if they are full, partial, or not tithe payers. If these members refuse to declare their status, then the bishop and the member at at an impasse.

Re: donations not show in unit? Member pays direct to Church HQ

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:46 am
by russellhltn
drepouille wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:54 am We have had members state on this forum that they want to donate directly to Church HQ specifically because they do not want the bishop or anyone else in their stake to know what they have donated. But the bishop must ask them if they are full, partial, or not tithe payers. If these members refuse to declare their status, then the bishop and the member at at an impasse.
I don't think they are concerned about declaring their status as much as having local leaders see the amount (implying how much money they make).

Re: donations not show in unit? Member pays direct to Church HQ

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:12 pm
by BrianEdwards
I don't think they are concerned about declaring their status as much as having local leaders see the amount (implying how much money they make).
Agreed. I was also making a distinction (at least there's one in my mind) between Tithing Settlement and a Temple Recommend Interview, where the Bishop officially approves the member's worthiness to enter the temple. In both cases the member is asked the question, and then gives their answer (unless of course the member doesn't declare their status during tithing settlement, in which case the Bishop declares it for them)

But for a temple recommend interview, the Bishop might -- or definitely might not -- feel prompted to ask a bit more about their situation when considering the temple recommend approval.

Re: donations not show in unit? Member pays direct to Church HQ

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:22 pm
by murdock20m
Also, I had a Ward member contact me because he could not see his own donations (directly to church HQ) on-line. He was wanting to verify that the Fast Offering portion was returned to the Ward.

Re: donations not show in unit? Member pays direct to Church HQ

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:36 pm
by drepouille
Wards and branches do not have a Fast Offering account. You can see on your financial statement and on LCRF that all donations to Fast Offering are swept from the local units to the general fund. Likewise, local units can automatically draw Fast Offering funds from the general fund if their expenses are greater than their donations. It is a common misconception that local units maintain a Fast Offering fund.

Re: donations not show in unit? Member pays direct to Church HQ

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:59 pm
by jdlessley
murdock20m wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:22 pm Also, I had a Ward member contact me because he could not see his own donations (directly to church HQ) on-line.
He will get a separate statement for those donations. And without further information he apparently designated those donations to be confidential. As such they do not appear in the online system.