Unbaptized Counselor in YW Class Presidency

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mkmurray
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Unbaptized Counselor in YW Class Presidency

#1

Post by mkmurray »

Hello again to many of you who remember me from over a decade ago! :D
Hopefully this is in the right sub-forum...

I'm still getting caught up on everything that LCR has replaced from the old MLS software we had to use on the ward computer. But I have a situation where an unbaptized (due to a disability), "out of default class assignment" individual needs to be entered in as a counselor in a YW class presidency; however, LCR is restricting that person from being entered into that position and saying that if they are "out of unit", I'd have to make a record for them that way.

Is there a better way to accomplish this? Is creating an out of unit record a necessary or plausible workaround?
drepouille
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Re: Unbaptized Counselor in YW Class Presidency

#2

Post by drepouille »

Wild guess here. Can an unbaptized member of record who is marked as Not Accountable be called into a presidency, or any other calling?
Dana Repouille, Plattsmouth, Nebraska
eblood66
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Re: Unbaptized Counselor in YW Class Presidency

#3

Post by eblood66 »

Welcome back!

Does this person have a record in your ward? If so, then you should just have to make sure they are assigned to the correct class and then you should be able to assign them.

If not, do they have a record in a another ward? If they have a record in another ward and it should should stay there (for example, there is joint custody situation) then it makes sense to create an out of unit record.

If they do not have a record at all (if they are just entered as a child on the record of a parent member) and if they are unaccountable then you may have to contact the Global Service Department and ask them to create a record for them (you can't because they are over 8 and unbaptized but being unaccountable would make it a special situation where I think the GSD would create the record).

If none of those seem to apply, I'd suggest posting a screen capture of what LCR is actually showing (marking out any personal information of course) because it doesn't make complete sense so far. If you don't have a record I'm not sure how you would try to make the assignment but if you do have a record I don't know why it would say anything about out of unit records.
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Re: Unbaptized Counselor in YW Class Presidency

#4

Post by russellhltn »

eblood66 has outlined the usual problems with being unable to advance a class member into a leadership position.

Looking at General Handbook 11.3.4.1, I'm not seeing any requirement other than being a YW.

However, the situation leaves me a bit puzzled. GH 38.2.8.1:
Persons with Intellectual Disabilities
A person with an intellectual disability may be baptized and confirmed if he or she can reasonably be considered accountable. He or she should be able to understand and keep the covenants of baptism.
Depending on what duties are assigned to a YW class councilor, they might be qualified for baptism.

It seems likely there is a implied business rule that a YW class councilor must be a member and not just a member of record. Disability might not have been factored in as in exception. If you've verified the other possibilities are not the problem, you can call GSD to see if they can grant an exception.

Another tactic you might try is to see if you can record it as a custom calling. I don't think that calling grants any special on-line privilege, so that may work.
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mkmurray
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Re: Unbaptized Counselor in YW Class Presidency

#5

Post by mkmurray »

eblood66 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:15 pm Welcome back!

Does this person have a record in your ward? If so, then you should just have to make sure they are assigned to the correct class and then you should be able to assign them.

...

If they do not have a record at all (if they are just entered as a child on the record of a parent member) and if they are unaccountable then you may have to contact the Global Service Department and ask them to create a record for them (you can't because they are over 8 and unbaptized but being unaccountable would make it a special situation where I think the GSD would create the record).
Hey eblood66, great to see your name! Looks like you passed my post count while I was out. Man I must have posted a lot back then! :)

So I think there is a record...there's not much on it though other than BIC and some birth info. Does a MRN ending in an 'A' indicate anything? I also noticed this record has the option to be marked as "Not Accountable". I've now brought it up to our new bishop and I think he and the parents will be discussing this possibility soon. Kind of surprised it hasn't been brought up before by previous leadership and clerks over the last 5-6 years. She is wheelchair bound and largely mute.

I am confused what the system thinks should be her default assigned class in this case. This would be her class based on age, but perhaps the baptism aspect is being enforced? I am wondering if the "Not Accountable" flag for the purposes of class membership or class leadership could be a programmed exception in the logic. If Bishop decides to activate that flag, it could be interesting to see how the logic evaluates differently if at all.
russellhltn wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:08 pm It seems likely there is a implied business rule that a YW class councilor must be a member and not just a member of record. Disability might not have been factored in as in exception. If you've verified the other possibilities are not the problem, you can call GSD to see if they can grant an exception.

Another tactic you might try is to see if you can record it as a custom calling. I don't think that calling grants any special on-line privilege, so that may work.
Russellhltn, good to see your name too! Clearly you haven't slowed your posting pace at all. ;)

Your member theory is quite plausible, though we might be able to test the disability theory with the "Not Accountable" flag as I mentioned above. I might consider the custom calling route, but it'll leave a weird hole in the class leadership.

If I need to contact GSD, how is that accomplished? Through LCR? An email or call?

Thanks everyone for your responses!
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Re: Unbaptized Counselor in YW Class Presidency

#6

Post by davesudweeks »

There have been problems with the software moving children and youth to the proper classes this year. In another post, it was reported the church will move everyone who is not moved manually once they get the bug resolved. The clerk can move her manually into the correct class if desired.
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Re: Unbaptized Counselor in YW Class Presidency

#7

Post by mkmurray »

davesudweeks wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:00 pm There have been problems with the software moving children and youth to the proper classes this year. In another post, it was reported the church will move everyone who is not moved manually once they get the bug resolved. The clerk can move her manually into the correct class if desired.
I am the clerk now. (Haha, sounds like a Tom Hanks movie :))

Also, she is already assigned to the class we want her to be in. The confusing part is instead why the system is indicating she is NOT in the default assigned class. This or not being a baptized member seem to be the thing preventing me from assigning her to a counselor position in the class presidency. It will interesting to see if "Not Accountable" is an exception to that rule. But thank you for bringing up the bug, because I suppose that could be an additional factor at play here for why things are not behaving as I would hope/expect.
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Re: Unbaptized Counselor in YW Class Presidency

#8

Post by russellhltn »

mkmurray wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:01 pm Does a MRN ending in an 'A' indicate anything?
No, the last position is just a modulo 11 check digit.

mkmurray wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:01 pm If I need to contact GSD, how is that accomplished? Through LCR? An email or call?

There should be a link if you dig around in the Help Center, but ward clerks have been reporting the link doesn't work for them. You might contact your trainer, the stake clerk.
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mkmurray
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Re: Unbaptized Counselor in YW Class Presidency

#9

Post by mkmurray »

russellhltn wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:09 pm There should be a link if you dig around in the Help Center, but ward clerks have been reporting the link doesn't work for them. You might contact your trainer, the stake clerk.
There is this helpful link about GSD: Global Service Department

A sub-link there for "Local Unit Support" takes you to a Record Keeping/Membership page with helpful links. One of them is "Contact Us" which appears to attempt to transfer to a Church-specific Service Now instance that just immediately logs you out with no chance to log a support case ticket. It redirects to https://lds.service-now.com/external_logout_complete.do after attempting to first go to https://lds.service-now.com/gsc but some failure redirects it immediately. I actually got it to pause on the page by spamming the cancel load button of the browser at the right time. It was a login page where I tried my Church Account credentials unsuccessfully.
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Re: Unbaptized Counselor in YW Class Presidency

#10

Post by russellhltn »

mkmurray wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:14 am It was a login page where I tried my Church Account credentials unsuccessfully.
That's the problem. It seems someone didn't grant Ward clerks access to "service now".
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