Our Stake's permanent camera setup

Discussions around receiving, originating, and holding Church broadcasts and conferences in meetinghouses including schedules, setup, equipment, and support.
brad_p
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Our Stake's permanent camera setup

#1

Post by brad_p »

https://www.burchcreek.org/help/spec-sh ... -ptz-setup

This post describes our permanent hardware setup. With COVID winding down, we needed a permanent solution that can work for years. We actively sought how to fulfill the handbook's section 29.7:
Streams and virtual meetings should not distract from the Spirit. Generally, only one device should be used to capture the meeting. Both the device and the person using it should be inconspicuous.
To meet that further, we wanted the following:
  • No taped cords on the floor
  • Nothing persistent in the chapel Monday through Saturday
  • No hardware near the speaker that the congregation can easily see
  • Nothing installed to the walls (our FM was adamant on this point, they said the directive comes from the Presiding Bishopric)
  • The ability to move the camera around as needed, such as during hymns or musical numbers, and zoom into a shoulders-to-head profile if desired
  • No shaking camera when it moves
  • Retain crystal clear pulpit audio with no hum or buzz
  • Support a condenser mic for hymns and musical numbers
  • A system clean enough that a camera assistant can use on just a few minutes of training
  • Allow the assistant for the building's last ward to collapse it down and store it all in under 10 minutes of work
  • Fit in an old building with minimal footprint area for a camera and very few wall power outlets
  • Priced under $1000 per building
It took us months and plenty of trial and error, but we finally got it. I took pictures and wrote up the parts list, with the link to it given at the top of this post.

We've been using this setup for months and the result has been excellent. As for the laptop camera controls, audio/video mixing, using OBS with both YouTube and Zoom together, etc. That will be for another post in the future.

This setup still needs some refining. The cords at the bottom of the mic stand are too much of a mess. I'm also trying to attach a USB hub and a power strip to a mic stand, and right now I'm only using gaffers tape. I'm not quite sure the best way to do this cleanly. If anyone has any good insights on how to manage cords and the power strip at the bottom of the mic stand, I'm very interested to hear your ideas.
russellhltn
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Re: Our Stake's permanent camera setup

#2

Post by russellhltn »

I like how everything mounts together on the stand. I agree the key is to simplify operations so it will be sustainable in the long-run.

As for the power strip, you might try mounting a small board using a pipe strap. Then you just "wall mount" your power strip. The USB hub is small enough I'd probably use zip ties.
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Mikerowaved
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Re: Our Stake's permanent camera setup

#3

Post by Mikerowaved »

Well done and thanks for sharing! Our Stake President was asked by our Area Authority to come up with a more long-term solution for webcasting in our ward meetinghouses. Of course, as STS and retired EE with quite a bit of of webcasting experience, that falls upon me to design and implement something within a yet-to-be-determined budget.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm reading into a "long-term solution" as a more permanent solution, which (IMO) would include mounted cameras. I appreciate letting us know the direction you've been given from your FM regarding this. I'll have my PFR get a definite answer from our FM manager before even starting the planning stage.
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Wattsuk
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Re: Our Stake's permanent camera setup

#4

Post by Wattsuk »

Looks like a great solution. We are fumbling our way towards something more permanent and crucially sustainable in terms of ease to setup etc.

We have a similar USB PTZ camera, but made by Angekis. It has UVC protocol that allow us to control the PTZ via the single USB cable without the need for an additional serial adapter.

Have you tried this to see if it works for you?

You are using OBS which has it's own plug ins, but there are standalone applications for software based PTZ control. I've tried the offerings from PTZoptics as well as Panasonic and Angekis themselves and they all work with our cheap USB PTZ camera.

Side benefit of this if you are using Zoom instead of OBS is the far end camera control.
brad_p
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Re: Our Stake's permanent camera setup

#5

Post by brad_p »

Mikerowaved wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:12 amI got a 404 error with your link above. I found the following page on your website that I think explains your setup pretty well, with nice photos, BTW:
Ack! I just fixed it. I had goofed up the URL last night. My original link works now.
but I'm reading into a "long-term solution" as a more permanent solution, which (IMO) would include mounted cameras.
Oh I completely agree. But I've tried numerous angles to get this and failed each time.
  • Our stake center has a very old tech setup, just coax cables running around in rooms, some of which don't work. The coax cables also have no support anywhere except a channel modulator in the stake clerk's office. Before the pandemic, one of the church contractors came out and helped me get it going. He was able use the rack to send a coax video signal into channel 5. But then he had no way to get the video back out to use in rooms. He literally said "I need some kind of demodulator, something that can take a coax signal on channel 5 and turn it into RCA cables" I replied "Like a VCR?" "Yes!' So our tech setup used an old VCR I had lying around at home. We tried using that as an argument to get a tech upgrade. The response from FM was that our tech setup was sufficient, and the soonest they'd consider an upgrade is 2026.
  • We heard through the grapevine that if you quietly mount a camera per building and do it in a way that's as non-destructive as possible, then church contractors won't care and FM looks the other way. So we started to go down this road...
  • Then our FM head got wind of our plan to screw two bolts per building to mount a camera, and he made a few long calls to our High Council rep explaining in several ways why that is a terrible idea.
  • As one alternative idea, one of our buildings has an old closed circuit camera still mounted that was used for a mothers cry room that nobody has been able to use for over a decade. I wanted to just quietly replace it with a PTZ camera...but that didn't fly either
  • Our stake center's boiler kept going out, so they're scheduling us for a full HVAC upgrade, and since it's such an internal remodel, they're going to give us an AV upgrae at the same time. It sounds like it won't happen until 2023 due to the supply chain and labor shortages.
So that put me in a real bind. I was surprised how *hard* a permanent solution was in this. I was just not a fan of the Mevo camera approach. In my opinion not inconspicuous, it has bad audio, and PTZ presets are vastly superior and foolproof. The thing that moved me forward was a thread several months back where people posted their other temporary camera mounting setups. Tripods just don't work in many buildings. But cameras on a big pole with a sturdy base does the trick. The rest was all about cords, wireless audio, and proper OBS plugins.
Last edited by brad_p on Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
brad_p
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Re: Our Stake's permanent camera setup

#6

Post by brad_p »

Wattsuk wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:20 am Have you tried this to see if it works for you?
It could, I just didn't try. I just know that serial/VISCA is the gold standard. This PTZ camera came bundled with the cable that turns it into a DS9 serial, and DS9 serial to USB cables are cheap. I plugged it together and it all worked like a charm. I've tested this exact same setup on the church's Lumens standard camera used for stake centers by plugging this cable into the rack, and we were able to control those Lumens PTZ cameras exactly the same.

I know some PTZs let you control via USB and get data via USB as well. I just don't know how standardized this protocol is.

I also know many recent PTZ cameras use a quasi documented HTTP API feature that can set and recall presets. At least one STS tech has figured out a way to script that and write their own system.

The OBS-PTZ plugin that came out in the past year has really made things nice. I've tried some other proprietary devices for VISCA control and their UI was a mess. I considered extra hardware with joysticks that do VISCA, but I wanted my setup to require a single laptop for the assistant. [/quote]
Side benefit of this if you are using Zoom instead of OBS is the far end camera control.
You can control your camera presets from Zoom?
russellhltn
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Re: Our Stake's permanent camera setup

#7

Post by russellhltn »

bradpeterson@gmail.com wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:50 pm Our stake center has a very old tech setup, just coax cables running around in rooms, some of which don't work. The coax cables also have no support anywhere except a channel modulator in the stake clerk's office. Before the pandemic, one of the church contractors came out and helped me get it going. He was able use the rack to send a coax video signal into channel 5. But then he had no way to get the video back out to use in rooms.
That's strange. Usually the rooms are wired up to get the output of the demodulator(s). Just wire into a TV set's Antenna/cable jack and set to Ch 5.

The cables that "don't work" are probably wired for RF distribution (from the modulators) and have things like splitters, taps, an attenuators - all which are deadly to anything like baseband video.
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Wattsuk
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Re: Our Stake's permanent camera setup

#8

Post by Wattsuk »

bradpeterson@gmail.com wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:59 pm
Wattsuk wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:20 am Have you tried this to see if it works for you?
It could, I just didn't try. I just know that serial/VISCA is the gold standard. This PTZ camera came bundled with the cable that turns it into a DS9 serial, and DS9 serial to USB cables are cheap. I plugged it together and it all worked like a charm. I've tested this exact same setup on the church's Lumens standard camera used for stake centers by plugging this cable into the rack, and we were able to control those Lumens PTZ cameras exactly the same.

I know some PTZs let you control via USB and get data via USB as well. I just don't know how standardized this protocol is.

I also know many recent PTZ cameras use a quasi documented HTTP API feature that can set and recall presets. At least one STS tech has figured out a way to script that and write their own system.

The OBS-PTZ plugin that came out in the past year has really made things nice. I've tried some other proprietary devices for VISCA control and their UI was a mess. I considered extra hardware with joysticks that do VISCA, but I wanted my setup to require a single laptop for the assistant.
Side benefit of this if you are using Zoom instead of OBS is the far end camera control.
You can control your camera presets from Zoom?
[/quote]

Worth trying if you have time, if you can reliably maintain the same functionality whilst removing a cable from the equation, then it must be worth doing?

Yes, we can control PTZ functions via zoom but the use case is quite niche I expect.
If for example you do not have an available tech specialist and may need a member of the Bishopric on the stand to take control it is very simple.
Join the zoom meeting from a secondary device such as a smartphone, click on the participant that is broadcasting the meeting, select the option to request camera control. The laptop that is then broadcasting the zoom meeting with receive the request to authorise that, handing PTZ control to the secondary user.
This could also be useful if the tech specialist happens to be the one who is self isolating at home with covid!

Anyway, not exactly an important feature on a week to week basis, but a handy back up feature for those using zoom.

P.S. Your FM sounds difficult. It is amazing what can usually be achieved when the Stake President gets on board and applies pressure from his position.
brad_p
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Re: Our Stake's permanent camera setup

#9

Post by brad_p »

Our FM head is great, he'll help us on everything we ask. Whenever I send him an email or a phone message, I get a good detailed reply.

He wants to let us mount cameras, but he just isn't wanting to fight the Presiding Bishopric on mounting cameras. Especially in non-stake buildings.
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Mikerowaved
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Re: Our Stake's permanent camera setup

#10

Post by Mikerowaved »

bradpeterson@gmail.com wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:16 am Our FM head is great, he'll help us on everything we ask. Whenever I send him an email or a phone message, I get a good detailed reply.

He wants to let us mount cameras, but he just isn't wanting to fight the Presiding Bishopric on mounting cameras. Especially in non-stake buildings.
I wonder if we have the same FM manager! :) Ours is also very responsive to our needs, however, when asked by my PFR about mounting cameras in ward buildings, the reply was a definite, "No". He confirmed that came from the Presiding Bishopric and he had no say in the matter.
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