chronic soundsystem issues

Discussions around meetinghouse sound systems, microphones, assisted listening devices, and translation equipment
rmrichesjr
Community Moderators
Posts: 3827
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:32 am
Location: Dundee, Oregon, USA

Re: chronic soundsystem issues

#11

Post by rmrichesjr »

evenspor wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:03 am ...
and when you first turn on the sound, it doesn't work right away; you have to play with the volume buttons first for it to really come on.
...
I just noticed this thread and have some information on this particular point. The more modern DSP-based systems are specifically programmed to wait ~8 seconds after power is turned on before the audio channel is activated. You just have to wait until ~8 seconds after powering up the system before you'll get sound. If I understand correctly, at least part of the reason for that design is to reduce the frequency with which young children play with the PA system. Systems with that feature were deployed at least by 2004ish and possibly some number of years before that.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 34418
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

Re: chronic soundsystem issues

#12

Post by russellhltn »

rmrichesjr wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:46 pm The more modern DSP-based systems are specifically programmed to wait ~8 seconds after power is turned on before the audio channel is activated. You just have to wait until ~8 seconds after powering up the system before you'll get sound.
Some were. Ours flashes for 8 seconds to indicate the timer, but is "on" immediately. Go figure.

OP, if you're still webcasting, you might want to record and then edit down to show what's happening. A video of what's going wrong would help the tech understand. By the time a write-up goes up the chain and filtered though FM, critical details may be lost.

I'm curious what the DSP on your unit looks like. If it's about 3.5" high, blue and says "Crown" it might be an issue we had many years ago. The switches used on the input to select between mic/line was of poor material that would absorb moisture and cause all kinds of problems. The solution was to replace the DSP. But I live in an area where the humidity can easily reach 80% or higher for weeks at a time. Michigan in winter, I'd think the chapel would be pretty dry.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
evenspor
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2022 8:38 am

Re: chronic soundsystem issues

#13

Post by evenspor »

I am not sure what you mean by DSP. If you clarify, I can take a picture. I can tell you our sound system is about 40 years old, so there's nothing "newer" about it. Michigan is not a dry place, although it is drier in the winter, but this isn't a winter problem. It's been going on ever since they "fixed" a different problem with the sound system several months ago by switching parts out with the little portable sound systems.

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions so far. To clarify, my husband is not the bishop, but he's in the bishopric, so I hear from him about how frustrated the bishop is, and I pass along your suggestions to both of them. Ward Conference is coming up in a month, so hopefully the stake president will understand better when he is there trying to give a talk himself, and we'll have all those stake visitors there to see what's going on. We are the far-out rural ward that covers a large area, while the rest of the stake is in the city, so we really do have a lot of trouble getting help. I grew up in Utah, and my dad worked for FM there for a while, and I can tell you, things do work a little differently here. That is to say, it probably has more to do with individuals (because I'm sure my dad was the best), not being in Michigan, but it is harder to get help and be heard when you're farther out.
lajackson
Community Moderators
Posts: 11460
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: US

Re: chronic soundsystem issues

#14

Post by lajackson »

evenspor wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:08 am I am not sure what you mean by DSP.
Digital Signal Processor. It is the computer brains of the sound system. We used to call it the amplifier.

Crown was a common brand used by the Church many years ago. Ivie is a common one today. There are others.

I hesitate to wish bad luck, but I hope enough happens at your ward conference to get the stake president really interested in challenging the FM Group to solve the problem.
rmrichesjr
Community Moderators
Posts: 3827
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:32 am
Location: Dundee, Oregon, USA

Re: chronic soundsystem issues

#15

Post by rmrichesjr »

evenspor wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:08 am I am not sure what you mean by DSP. If you clarify, I can take a picture. I can tell you our sound system is about 40 years old, so there's nothing "newer" about it. ...
At about 40 years old, it likely doesn't have a DSP, because they didn't exist at that time. Crown made many of the main amplifiers installed in meetinghouses around that era--a VERY highly respected brand at the time. The Crown amps I saw in one stake center had circuitry that would smooth out overloads to avoid most of the unpleasant sound of clipping.

The closest thing to a DSP in that era was a 1U (1.75" tall rack-mountable) mixer with analog noise gates. On those, each of the four mic-level inputs had a gain control and a LED to indicate when the noise gate was open. The pots (potentiometers) on those units got dirty, scratchy, noisy very often. The most practical solution for that problem (with the system off or no microphone connected) is to smoothly rotate the knob between the extreme positions a couple dozen times.

In the modern systems I have seen, Ivie makes the DSP units, and the amplifiers are separate from the DSPs.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 34418
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

Re: chronic soundsystem issues

#16

Post by russellhltn »

rmrichesjr wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:50 pm At about 40 years old, it likely doesn't have a DSP, because they didn't exist at that time. Crown made many of the main amplifiers installed in meetinghouses around that era--a VERY highly respected brand at the time.
Thinking about it, I think it was more of a matrix switcher that could be programmed from a computer. It's job was to route audio based on inputs. Like turning on the overflow when the won doors were opened and switching the cultural hall into overflow mode when all the doors where opened.

Yes, Crown is a respected brand, which was disappointing when I found those crummy switches on the inputs. I've seen them before on TASCAM 10 mixing boards with similar results.

I'd recognize it if I saw a picture of the front or back.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
User avatar
johnshaw
Senior Member
Posts: 2273
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Syracuse, UT

Re: chronic soundsystem issues

#17

Post by johnshaw »

I know you're getting tons of responses here, and I didn't read through all of them, but the ONLY way to 'work with FM' is to use the ticketing system. Log tickets, when they close them, look at what they said, test it and then open another ticket if things still don't work. Log a ticket for EVERY thing... but don't log a ticket that says, sound system doesn't work... be very specific... put in the details. Tickets and Tickets and Tickets is the key. If it gets closed, open another one, if it gets closed again with no satisfaction open another one.
“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom.”
― Thomas Paine, Common Sense
Post Reply

Return to “Meetinghouse Audio”