Tech Forum

markgnorthcott wrote: I wonder if there's a way that the stake presidency or stake clerks (or a properly called administrator) can click a checkbox then to make all the members of the stake visible. I know privacy concerns would probably not allow this but the program is completely useless in the current opt-in situation. I mean, if we can print out a full stake directory, why can't we do this?

I haven't looked at the source code to see for certain, but I believe that certain leadership callings can still see all members regardless of opt-in/opt-out status. That's true in the US and in the Jira entry on EU privacy it looks like the same is probably true in the EU.

Those leadership callings would probably be the stake presidency, stake clerk and maybe assistant stake clerks. It might also include ward bishoprics and the ward clerk but more likely they can only see those in their own ward who have opted out.

Well my concern is for the general membership really. those who choose to adopt the program early have to be patient with those who adopt the program late on the opt-in. Ultimately it would lead to the program not being used at all. it's like playing tetris with all the standard blocks but most of them only have one square for the whole shape, the game would sill work, but ultimately it's just frustrating.

there needs to be a situation where the stake clerk can opt-in everyone in the stake (in EU countries) even if the same would be pointless in non-EU countries. This solution will save stakes a lot of money in keeping from having to print out stake directories and calendars.

I will fight for this! It's a perfectly fine work-around I think.

urg... why do we have such pointless rules in the EU... I might just move back home to canada so I don't have to put up with it!

Does anyone actually have a copy of the EU Privacy Laws in question? the Jira entry doesn't specifically link to the Privacy law in question here.

If this doesn't work, then maybe those in the EU will have to sign an agreement when baptised and also for the general membership to use (to opt-in or out)

urg... I don't like it when i get stuck on issues that I feel need to be solved and i wish i knew how to code so I could help out on the coding level too.

nope stuck being a frustrated beta tester forever...
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and now to look at it from the other side of the fence: those who want the privacy...

for example: a head of household or an adult member of a household can sign in, and it seems to make the whole household available then. what if the husband signed in and the wife didn't want to? corny, but i'm sure there are some situations where that would pose a problem.

markgnorthcott wrote:there needs to be a situation where the stake clerk can opt-in everyone in the stake (in EU countries)

I'm going to go out on a limb and make an assumption that the point of the relevant portion of the EU privacy directives is that information about an individual should not be disclosed without that individual's consent. (At least that's what I gather from some limited reading.) If you can get through the 72 "whereas" clauses, this page is probably a good place to start. Article 8 deals with some special circumstances that apply to the Church and includes the phrase "data are not disclosed to a third party without the consent of the data subjects."

There has likely been a lot of research and effort expended by the Church to determine what is allowed, what isn't, and what is required. The legal requirements will be reflected in the way that the software works. The stake clerk doesn't have the legal right to make an opt-in decision for everyone in the stake, so the system isn't going to allow that. Allowing it could result in unpleasant repercussions for the Church and possibly for the individual involved.

Although it might create inconvenience or additional expense for the stake, we believe in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law, even when we don't like it or it is inconvenient.

I am not a lawyer and don't play one on TV.

The feature to email presidencies and councils under the Leader and Clerk app is also available to Ward Executive Secretaries.

In my last ward, we had a "new church technologies orientation" activity where the ward clerk and I helped everyone who came get logged in, find which calendars they needed for their situation, and instructed them on the use of the directory(including how to opt-out and what that meant)... this was a little while ago and we've had to keep updating people on specifics since then with new releases, but it's gotten everyone to realize that the new site is there and a good amount of people used it before I moved... not everyone will understand right away, and the biggest concern I had was always people not realizing that this information is not public to the world, only to the stake membership... if they brought in their own computers I set up their outlook or other calendaring program to sync the events...

maybe having something like this would help get you started on getting people to show up, then you just work with those that didn't show up... It's not a perfect solution, but it helped my ward...