HT/VT Reporting Website Overview

Discussions around miscellaneous technologies and projects for the general membership.
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brado426
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#211

Post by brado426 »

A few groups did use the site for a period of time with live data until it became apparent that this was not allowed by the Church.

Brad O.
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#212

Post by daddy-o-p40 »

thedqs wrote:Enrique, are you saying that your ward or stake is currently actively using the site with real data? (Or was using since it seems that it stopped)
thedqs-
Yep. You see unlike scouting.org and ymyw.org which it seems violate current church policy. This site only had public record data on the stie (aka Names of the head of household.)

Tomw-
What is the status of locating an internal server to park this on? We have some brethren that would be willing to contribute a server and their time to install it.
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brado426
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#213

Post by brado426 »

enriquer wrote:thedqs-
Yep. You see unlike scouting.org and ymyw.org which it seems violate current church policy. This site only had public record data on the stie (aka Names of the head of household.)

For everyone's information, the only data from MLS required by this HT/VT reporting application is as follows:

  • Teacher Name, Phone, and E-Mail
  • "Assigned Household Name" for Home Teaching or "Sister Name" for Visiting Teaching and Phone
  • Percentage taught for each Household/Sister


E-Mail addresses are only needed for the Home/Visiting Teachers.

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#214

Post by WelchTC »

enriquer wrote:Tomw-
What is the status of locating an internal server to park this on? We have some brethren that would be willing to contribute a server and their time to install it.
It's not an issue of finding a server or the bandwidth. It is more a procedural issue. What kind of presidence does this set for other apps? What if the app has security issues or holes? What if the software has bugs? I just have to work through the proper channels to get all of the necessary buy-off.

Tom
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#215

Post by daddy-o-p40 »

tomw wrote:It's not an issue of finding a server or the bandwidth. It is more a procedural issue. What kind of presidence does this set for other apps? What if the app has security issues or holes? What if the software has bugs? I just have to work through the proper channels to get all of the necessary buy-off.

Tom
This is encouraging.

Are we talking days, weeks, or months?
Is there anything we can do to help this effort?
Given this site only contains public record data can the test environment continue until the transition to the church hosted environment is made?
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#216

Post by WelchTC »

enriquer wrote:This is encouraging.

Are we talking days, weeks, or months?
I don't know. Please realize that I may never get the go ahead.
Is there anything we can do to help this effort?
Not at the present time.
Given this site only contains public record data can the test environment continue until the transition to the church hosted environment is made?
Please do not continue using the site.

Tom
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Precedence

#217

Post by Mr. M-p40 »

Would it be safe to assume that it isn't in our best interest as developers to create any tools that are web based because they would at some point require data to be stored within them? It appears that a tool such as this one that doesn't get the go ahead and actually gets shut down, is a good sign that the "support the church technology community" isn't going to work.

At least not from a "be creative" stand point.

It's really a ping the technology community for answers to the questions we ask site isn't it.

I apologize if I sound a little frustrated but, I see this type of thing happen in Bureaucratic environments where something very useful is pitched and pursued only to be shut down because of a "policy."

Isn't that contradictory to the concept that technology is here to build the kingdom. If it's secure, it works and there is no cost to the church why not use it.

I believe that I have read that the development is volunteer and the hardware can be donated to run it...what would be the hold up or concern?
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#218

Post by mkmurray »

Mr. M wrote:It's really a ping the technology community for answers to the questions we ask site isn't it.
I think you're way off here. Sure the Church employees have many questions they are trying to get feeback on, but I feel the site has served much more of a purpose than that. I've never seen so many great ideas and enhancements flourshing, helpful tips and fixes, productive time-savers, and so on, so forth. This has been a wellspring of thought and creativity.
Mr. M wrote:I apologize if I sound a little frustrated but, I see this type of thing happen in Bureaucratic environments where something very useful is pitched and pursued only to be shut down because of a "policy."

Isn't that contradictory to the concept that technology is here to build the kingdom. If it's secure, it works and there is no cost to the church why not use it.

I believe that I have read that the development is volunteer and the hardware can be donated to run it...what would be the hold up or concern?
First off, the project isn't shut down nor near it. Tom is just giving it to us straight so as not to get anyone's hopes up prematurely. In fact, because it's one of the first major projects actually going somewhere with the community, I bet there are many eyes from the Church watching and waiting to see what will come of it. There is a lot of infrastructure (both technological resources and human resources) to be set up in the Church to be able to cooperate with the community on such a large scale like this.

I say please be more patient as implementing such a new direction takes time and planning for such a large, global organization as the Church. Remember that we are a Church that numbers every individual, and with that comes major reponsibility for sensitive information that has to be kept secure. Can you imagine the liabilities the Church could face if something the community developed went dreadfully wrong? Also, think about the fast-paced, selfish business world that we live in today. All of the patent and copyright laws, greedful suing for money, etc. It is an environment devoid of cooperation and sharing, a dangerous environment totally against what the Church needs to grow in this way. The Church cannot waste it's time and money on lawsuits. Is it any wonder the Church is so conservative and cautious in such things?

The Church will get there to your vision in time, Mr. M. It will just take a little time. Who knows where we'll be a year from now? It may surprise you.
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#219

Post by brado426 »

I think mkmurray said it pretty good.

I also think we just need to be patient. When starting this project, I realized it was probably a bit ahead of its time and understood the risks.

The benefits provided by this system are enormous, so the people that were helping test did feel a fairly significant blow once these benefits were taken away.

I do wish the Church could provide us with permission to at least run the site in a "pilot test" scenario because it is pretty much impossible to further enhance the system without it. At the same time, I understand that the concerns of the Church.

I am confident that things will work themselves out in due time.

Also, I believe this LDS Tech message board is a great thing. Look at this thread alone. There is no way we would have been able to add all these additional features and enhancments without the community's input.

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#220

Post by Mr. M-p40 »

mkmurray wrote:I think you're way off here. Sure the Church employees have many questions they are trying to get feeback on, but I feel the site has served much more of a purpose than that. I've never seen so many great ideas and enhancements flourshing, helpful tips and fixes, productive time-savers, and so on, so forth. This has been a wellspring of thought and creativity.

First off, the project isn't shut down nor near it. Tom is just giving it to us straight so as not to get anyone's hopes up prematurely. In fact, because it's one of the first major projects actually going somewhere with the community, I bet there are many eyes from the Church watching and waiting to see what will come of it. There is a lot of infrastructure (both technological resources and human resources) to be set up in the Church to be able to cooperate with the community on such a large scale like this.

I say please be more patient as implementing such a new direction takes time and planning for such a large, global organization as the Church. Remember that we are a Church that numbers every individual, and with that comes major reponsibility for sensitive information that has to be kept secure. Can you imagine the liabilities the Church could face if something the community developed went dreadfully wrong? Also, think about the fast-paced, selfish business world that we live in today. All of the patent and copyright laws, greedful suing for money, etc. It is an environment devoid of cooperation and sharing, a dangerous environment totally against what the Church needs to grow in this way. The Church cannot waste it's time and money on lawsuits. Is it any wonder the Church is so conservative and cautious in such things?

The Church will get there to your vision in time, Mr. M. It will just take a little time. Who knows where we'll be a year from now? It may surprise you.

Let me say I am a total advocate for tapping resources, I will explain shortly.

My post was based off an email that I received last week indicating that the site had been shutdown. It was from Brad, as he is trying to uphold what the church has asked of him. I came here to see if there was any update since last week and there is and it coincides with what was explained to me. I am not bashing...I don't think that I am being unfair. I am being sincere in my concern here.

I personally spent a year on a church project, that was a huge success. I made the development commitment with the "impression" that it would be used church wide for temple dedications. It was used for the Sacramento dedication. Everyone was ecstatic and it fulfilled its responsibility. Then it was passed up through the chain of command and the only thing I ever heard about it after that was, the church will get back to you but for now shut it down. I shut it down...and still a year later haven't heard anything back. I actually put a post up here a while back about it too.

It's a .NET MSSQL event volunteer mangagement system. It managed 8500 volunteers, 22 stakes, their wards, their leaders, and 175,000 visitors with reporting and printed badge generation. At the request of the church, I deleted the data immediately following the event...and kept the code base. It was not a commission project. I was the sole developer, with an support and QA team of four. If anyone would like the code. Email me and you are welcome to it.

I also want to make sure that no on thinks I am bashing...I too am just telling it straight.
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