HT/VT Reporting Website Overview

Discussions around miscellaneous technologies and projects for the general membership.
jaredtm13-p40
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What about the non-tech-savy?

#251

Post by jaredtm13-p40 »

Nice tool Brado. I like how it helps get people in the habit of actually reporting, instead of just waiting for a phone call. I don't think there is a doubt that the Lord expects us to return and report on our own after finishing an assignment.

Have you thought how you would accommodate those that are not real familiar with computers. For some wards this would be the whole High Priest group. Could a Elder's Quorum president, or High Priest group leader have access to put in reports for those that don't use the tool?
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brado426
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#252

Post by brado426 »

jaredtm13 wrote:Nice tool Brado. I like how it helps get people in the habit of actually reporting, instead of just waiting for a phone call. I don't think there is a doubt that the Lord expects us to return and report on our own after finishing an assignment.

Thanks, Jared.
jaredtm13 wrote: Have you thought how you would accommodate those that are not real familiar with computers. For some wards this would be the whole High Priest group. Could a Elder's Quorum president, or High Priest group leader have access to put in reports for those that don't use the tool?

As a matter of fact, I have. Anyone that does not feel comfortable reporting via computer can report the old fashioned way. A Presidency Member or Supervisor can report for them. Even without the ability for teachers to report for themselves, the ability for the Presidency to collaborate to update the HT/VT reports is extremely beneficial to the Home/Visiting Teaching process.

To anyone that has decision-making power at the Church: I would like nothing more than to coordinate a legal pilot test right now. It is hard for anyone to realize the numerous benefits of this system unless they are actually using it.

Brad O.
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WelchTC
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#253

Post by WelchTC »

brado426 wrote:Thanks, Jared.

To anyone that has decision-making power at the Church: I would like nothing more than to coordinate a legal pilot test right now. It is hard for anyone to realize the numerous benefits of this system unless they are actually using it.

Brad O.
The issue is not one of whether this is a good idea or not. It is more a privacy and security issue. The concern, while it sounds easy to solve is very complex. What we are doing at the Church is working with various groups to determine all of their concerns and then trying to figure out if we can alleviate them and still allow the community to create and develop applications like this. In addition, we are also figuring out if we can safely and security expose official data for you to build apps around.

The other idea is to take this application and host it on our servers. One would think that this would easily solve many problems. However it does not. Because we have very strict policies and procedures that we have to follow in the different products that we offer worldwide. For example in some countries this type of application may be illegal without the consent of those individuals you are tracking information on. So then we get into situations where we have to figure out how to prevent units from accessing the site.

I'm just touching the iceberg of issues that need to be resolved. Please be patient as we work through the process. I assure you that this discussion is taking place at our leadership level.

Tom
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brado426
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#254

Post by brado426 »

tomw wrote:The issue is not one of whether this is a good idea or not. It is more a privacy and security issue. The concern, while it sounds easy to solve is very complex. What we are doing at the Church is working with various groups to determine all of their concerns and then trying to figure out if we can alleviate them and still allow the community to create and develop applications like this. In addition, we are also figuring out if we can safely and security expose official data for you to build apps around.

The other idea is to take this application and host it on our servers. One would think that this would easily solve many problems. However it does not. Because we have very strict policies and procedures that we have to follow in the different products that we offer worldwide. For example in some countries this type of application may be illegal without the consent of those individuals you are tracking information on. So then we get into situations where we have to figure out how to prevent units from accessing the site.

I'm just touching the iceberg of issues that need to be resolved. Please be patient as we work through the process. I assure you that this discussion is taking place at our leadership level.

Tom

Tom,

I'm in no position to argue these points since I'm not familiar with the Church's IT department and policies.

However, from my point of view, a pilot test with a few Stakes within the United States should be possible without working out every single issue ahead of time. I would be more than happy to address any security concerns with the Church. As stated earlier in this thread, this application is not dealing with sensitive data.

As the application works now, no unit can access the site unless they were specifically set up to do so.

I would just like to see us get back into a situation where progress could be made again.

Brad
russellhltn
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#255

Post by russellhltn »

brado426 wrote:this application is not dealing with sensitive data.
The only thing more then LUWS is the HT/VT assignments and visit record, right?

Question: How do you handle the situation where a member has asked for their information to be removed from LUWS completely? How do you obey the spirit of that request in your system? How does the system work with a hidden member?
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brado426
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#256

Post by brado426 »

RussellHltn wrote:The only thing more then LUWS is the HT/VT assignments and visit record, right?

Question: How do you handle the situation where a member has asked for their information to be removed from LUWS completely? How do you obey the spirit of that request in your system? How does the system work with a hidden member?

That is correct. The only information stored by the system is the teacher and household/sister names, phone numbers, e-mail addresses (entered manually) and home/visiting teaching statistical information (entered by Home/Visiting teachers, Supervisors, or Presidency Members).

Your question has come up before with one of the groups that was assisting with testing the system. I believe a feature could be added fairly easily that would allow the Presidency to add names to a list to prevent them from showing up in the system.

Brad O.
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WelchTC
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#257

Post by WelchTC »

brado426 wrote:Tom,

I'm in no position to argue these points since I'm not familiar with the Church's IT department and policies.
This is not a Church IT department policy or concern. It is a legal and data stewardship concern. From the technology perspective, I am sure that we can devise ways to secure data. But we have to properly demonstrated to those in other departments that we can protect individuals information.
brado426 wrote:As stated earlier in this thread, this application is not dealing with sensitive data.
Name, address, phone number and email address information is considered sensitive data. We have learned from sad experience what happens when this data is misused or mishandled. Please be patient with us as we work through the organizational levels and departments.

Tom
james_francisco
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#258

Post by james_francisco »

This is a real concern. I've been involved in the development of web applications that have international distribution and there are real international legal concerns about the privacy of personal information. At the very least there needs to be concerns about the impact of the European Community personal privacy laws. In the big software firms there are lawyers with CS undergrad degrees that actually review the source code of web applications to ensure that the risk of privacy breaches are minimized.

tomw wrote:This is not a Church IT department policy or concern. It is a legal and data stewardship concern. From the technology perspective, I am sure that we can devise ways to secure data. But we have to properly demonstrated to those in other departments that we can protect individuals information.


Name, address, phone number and email address information is considered sensitive data. We have learned from sad experience what happens when this data is misused or mishandled. Please be patient with us as we work through the organizational levels and departments.

Tom
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brado426
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#259

Post by brado426 »

tomw wrote:This is not a Church IT department policy or concern. It is a legal and data stewardship concern. From the technology perspective, I am sure that we can devise ways to secure data. But we have to properly demonstrated to those in other departments that we can protect individuals information.


Name, address, phone number and email address information is considered sensitive data. We have learned from sad experience what happens when this data is misused or mishandled. Please be patient with us as we work through the organizational levels and departments.

Tom

In another thread, someone was mentioning that other websites store the same type of data, which no one seems to think is a concern. Yes, the data is sensitive and needs to be secured, but it is not like we're storing credit card or social security numbers here. I guess I should have said, "not as sensitive as...."

Tom: I want to do as you say and be patient, but I also want to do whatever I can to push this project forward and encourage the Church to take some action. If everything is being done that can possibly be done, I cannot ask for more than that.

James: I do not see why the Church would need to worry about international law right now for this particular project. I think focusing on the US and dealing with that subject later would be a reasonable course of action.

Brad O.
james_francisco
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#260

Post by james_francisco »

I do understand your thoughts here Brad. However, I'm also coming from the perspective of do things right the first time. My opinion is that the legal protections for personally identifiable information are far stronger in other countries than in the U.S.. With that in mind, why not be the best protector of personal information of any organization operating on the web from the U.S. by complying with the most stringent protections? That's my take.
brado426 wrote:
James: I do not see why the Church would need to worry about international law right now for this particular project. I think focusing on the US and dealing with that subject later would be a reasonable course of action.

Brad O.
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