multiple cameras and microphones

Using the Church Webcasting System, YouTube, etc. Including cameras and mixers.
Aczlan
Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Upstate, NY, USA

#31

Post by Aczlan »

RussellHltn wrote:Go though your stake presidency to the FM group to see if you can get what you need. I think the standard equipment that's used has 4 mic inputs. So there may be two inputs available. When they installed our system, those inputs where wired to where you could plug in a mic on the floor.
We have a customized sound system. They provided a line input into the distribution device. As a result, my line input goes to all speakers except the choir speakers. You probably don't want to turn off the choir speakers completely - that would leave the choir unable to hear the talks. (Been there, done that, got the complaints.)
I would highly advise against modifying the system on your own. That's why I say work though the stake with the FM group to get what you need.

Could I get some more details on how this was done? We are looking to do the same thing and it would be nice to be able to tell FM that it has been done before and how it was done.

Aaron Z
russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 32099
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

#32

Post by russellhltn »

Aczlan wrote:Could I get some more details on how this was done? We are looking to do the same thing and it would be nice to be able to tell FM that it has been done before and how it was done.

I wasn't involved in the details, but as far as I know:the stake presidency wanted it. We went though he FM group and it went to the church department that handles the sound system design, setup and tuning. It might be easier to stick to the specs of what you want and what problem it solves (in case the designer has an idea that might accomplish the same thing).

I know our line in is unusual, but I thought the two mic jacks were standard setup.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
Aczlan
Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Upstate, NY, USA

#33

Post by Aczlan »

RussellHltn wrote:I wasn't involved in the details, but as far as I know:the stake presidency wanted it. We went though he FM group and it went to the church department that handles the sound system design, setup and tuning. It might be easier to stick to the specs of what you want and what problem it solves (in case the designer has an idea that might accomplish the same thing).
I know our line in is unusual, but I thought the two mic jacks were standard setup.

So, you have an input that feeds into the whole system and one that excludes the speakers above the rostrum?
We currently have 5 mic level input jacks (2 in front of the rostrum, 1 under the podium and 2 under the sacrament table) and 2 line level input jacks (one under the sacrament table and one non-functional jack in the Stake Clerk's office), but they all feed into the whole system.
We came up with a way to shut off the speakers over the rostrum with a relay when needed, but if there is something that has been done elsewhere I think that FM would prefer it.
Our system is in need of being re-balanced (the gym sound levels are noticeably lower than the chapel sound levels when the partitions are open) and while they are out doing that, having that added would be nice.

Thanks

Aaron Z
russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 32099
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

#34

Post by russellhltn »

Aczlan wrote:So, you have an input that feeds into the whole system and one that excludes the speakers above the rostrum?
Yes. The way our system was designed, there's a DSP device between the mixer and the power amps. In addition to the equalization, it also acts as a programmable audio distribution box. (It used to be a Crown, but it was replaced, I don't remember the brand that's in there now.) For example, it's the box that switches the chapel audio into the gym when the doors are opened. We were given our own XLR (balanced) line-level input into that box and the programming is such that our audio is fed everywhere (regardless of the position of the doors) except for the amp that feeds the choir speakers.

Aczlan wrote:We currently have 5 mic level input jacks (2 in front of the rostrum, 1 under the podium and 2 under the sacrament table)
Interesting. In addition to the podium and sacrament table mic, we have 4 mic jacks, but they feed two inputs on the mixer - in effect the building wiring forms a "Y" cable. You can either use the two mics in the choir loft or the two on the sides of the stand. But if you try to use both at the same time you may find the performance isn't what you'd expect since the jacks are "Y" together. IIRC, the automatic mic mixer they used only has 4 inputs, so you might check as see if any of your jacks are "Y"ed.
Aczlan wrote:Our system is in need of being re-balanced (the gym sound levels are noticeably lower than the chapel sound levels when the partitions are open) and while they are out doing that, having that added would be nice.
It would be good to make a list. The FM group in my area has to fly out someone for the setup. Needless to say, the FM group batches all the audio work in the area to make the best use of the tech's time.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 32099
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

#35

Post by russellhltn »

While you're thinking of things to add, we've also got 3 hanging choir mics and a 4 channel snake built into the building. It does simplify setup.

However, our stake center is decidedly non-standard. Most stake centers don't have a 100 seat choir loft, much less a 10+ year tradition of grand Christmas Concerts. :D
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
Aczlan
Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Upstate, NY, USA

#36

Post by Aczlan »

RussellHltn wrote:While you're thinking of things to add, we've also got 3 hanging choir mics and a 4 channel snake built into the building. It does simplify setup.
However, our stake center is decidedly non-standard. Most stake centers don't have a 100 seat choir loft, much less a 10+ year tradition of grand Christmas Concerts. :D

We thought about those, but decided that we dont need the built in mics or a built in snake.
We have 3 chior mics that mount on mic stands which work great stake conference, or the Sundays in July when we have ~1000 people in for Sacrament Meeting (visitors for the Hill Cumorah Pageant).
We looked at a built in snake too, but opted to spec a 100' portable snake snake and pass throughs to the stake clerks office as the snake could then be used for roadshows and it is cheaper.


Aaron Z
harddrive
Senior Member
Posts: 501
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:52 pm

#37

Post by harddrive »

Aczlan wrote:We thought about those, but decided that we dont need the built in mics or a built in snake.
We have 3 chior mics that mount on mic stands which work great stake conference, or the Sundays in July when we have ~1000 people in for Sacrament Meeting (visitors for the Hill Cumorah Pageant).
We looked at a built in snake too, but opted to spec a 100' portable snake snake and pass throughs to the stake clerks office as the snake could then be used for roadshows and it is cheaper.


Aaron Z

I spoke with my Audio technician. He said that all I really need to mic my choir for stake conference is two good uni directional microphones going into a mixer and then the output of the mixer into one of the microphone jacks. The only drawback to that is that you need someone to run the mixer.

In my area my audio technician has the buildings sound perfect. He doesn't like the hanging microphones.

So got a lot of testing before my stake conference in June.
rknelson
Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 3:13 pm
Location: Oregon

Choir Mics using the satellite audio feed

#38

Post by rknelson »

We installed 2 hanging choir mics (Shure MX202W/C). They are white so they match the wall of the chapel and hang from the ceiling all the time because are very unobtrusive. The choir mics feed a mixer which provides phantom power for the choir mics and lets us set the level the way we want them. The mixer was a castoff from the upgrade of another building and is mounted in the audio rack.

We also cut the satellite feed line and put a set of mating male/female XLR connectors in the line (we actually didn’t cut the wire, but that’s the best way to describe the signal flow). This is on the line that feeds satellite sound into the building mixer. For stake conference we separate the two XLR connectors and plug the choir mic mixer output into where the satellite feed would normally enter the building audio system mixer.

During choir numbers (and hymns, since the same mics pick up the organ and piano well) the satellite sound is turned on with the podium switch (which can also adujst the choir volume), and for the rest of the conference it is turned off. After conference we move the connector back to the satellite feed.

We have used this setup for several years without any problems.

I found a document from Shure “Audio Systems Guide for Houses of Worship” pages 42 & 43 very helpful in placing the choir microphones. It is easy to find as a PDF document online, and I would recommend it for anyone tackling the audio topics in this thread. To be clear, I’m not endorsing Shure – several other vendors make similar hanging choir mics.

This work was done with the approval of the FM group, and I echo the caution others have mentioned about disturbing the sound system without the FM group being in the loop – the systems are carefully engineered and calibrated for the building.
Aczlan
Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Upstate, NY, USA

#39

Post by Aczlan »

rknelson wrote: We also cut the satellite feed line and put a set of mating male/female XLR connectors in the line (we actually didn’t cut the wire, but that’s the best way to describe the signal flow). This is on the line that feeds satellite sound into the building mixer. For stake conference we separate the two XLR connectors and plug the choir mic mixer output into where the satellite feed would normally enter the building audio system mixer.
Where did you tie into that? Was that in the amp rack?
I found a document from Shure “Audio Systems Guide for Houses of Worship” pages 42 & 43 very helpful in placing the choir microphones. It is easy to find as a PDF document online, and I would recommend it for anyone tackling the audio topics in this thread. To be clear, I’m not endorsing Shure – several other vendors make similar hanging choir mics.
I have printed a copy of that document and their "Microphone Techniques for Live Sound Reinforcement" to use as reference materials when I am unsure how to mic something. I have found them to be well written and very helpful. They are not as entertaining to read as the Mackie manuals, but they have good information.
This work was done with the approval of the FM group, and I echo the caution others have mentioned about disturbing the sound system without the FM group being in the loop – the systems are carefully engineered and calibrated for the building.
That is the key IMO. FM needs to know (and approve of) what is happening, or 2 years down the road your system might disappear 2 days before Stake Conference when the sound company comes through to replace a bad mixer and FM doesn't know why there is an extra mixer in the amp rack, so it gets removed.

Aaron Z
russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 32099
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

#40

Post by russellhltn »

Aczlan wrote:That is the key IMO. FM needs to know (and approve of) what is happening, or 2 years down the road your system might disappear 2 days before Stake Conference when the sound company comes through to replace a bad mixer and FM doesn't know why there is an extra mixer in the amp rack, so it gets removed.

I don't disagree, but I'd rather not rely on the memory of the FM guy. I'd suggest labeling the mixer. You might also want to consider a switch. That way the mixer will have a "connection". As it stands now, someone looking at it may conclude it's no longer in use since the output isn't connected to anything.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
Post Reply

Return to “Non-Interactive Webcasting”